Wtf is wrong with people when it comes to hidden disabilities?

[Whatthebarnacles]

Full on rant incoming! Ready to be flamed in the depths on MN hell for this but it really is a hill I'm happy to die on so whatever will be, will be!

I'm absolutely sick to the back teeth of certain people on here who eye roll and sneer that those with hidden disabilities should be treated the same as neuro typical people.

Non verbal, lashing out? Report to police for assault - how dare they lay a hand on someone else 🙄

Can't sit still / constantly stims? Expel them from school - why should my "normal child" be affected?🙄

Stares and makes noises? Tell them you're uncomfortable and to stop immediately, we have the right not to be ogled.🙄

Can we please just stop it?! It's like the world's gone mad! All the years of effort to try and make people aware of hidden disabilities just seems to have crumbled an i've seen it happenn in here over the last 6 months or so more than ever. There seems to be an almighty wave of this incredibly farcical "BUT ME AND MINE" or "MY RIGHTS" just smash through the work that had been done and its depressing as shit.

Would you call the police or kick off on someone who spilled a cuppa over you then laughed? Or caught your face , if...

1. They were 4 years old? Nope, so why would you for someone with intellectual disabilities? You would talk to the carer. Rightly so.

1. If they had Parkinsons? Would you bollocks. Because you can SEE that disability and because its a physical one, then it can't be helped, right?

1. They were clearly ND?

There are countless people in here who would because, according to them, they do not have the right / there needs to be consequences / they're an adult regardless / i am woman hear me roar etc.

I cant get my head around the lack of understanding

And don't get me started on those who turn these things into "us women" need to defend ourselves. And faux outrage "would they have done it to a man? I don't think so!" Urgh. Yes... they would. A disability is a disability, a stim is a stim, a jolt is a jolt. Hair is dangly, splashing someone or spilling something is funny, stimming is calming on the inside whilst frantic in the outside.

Frankly, it turns my stomach. Why is the world so angry at people who are different at the moment?!

I can only presume that the number of people now having been diagnosed is pissing these people off. I've honestly never ever heard so much "just because they're xyz doesn't mean that..." in my life. See also "they need to learn" or "they should know"...

I fret for my son growing up in this. He doesn't stand a cat in hells chance.

YABU - Of course ND people, should be treated the same as NT people when it comes to differing behaviour, regardless of mental age or physical disabilities associated with their condition.

YANBU - MN is rife with it at the moment, I've noticed that too.

Annnnnd..... crucify me. GO!!

That's fair enough, I overlooked the possibility of being on the other side of the playground - I'm never on the other side of the playground because my daughter has learning disabilities.

I like to think that I am in general tolerant of, and considerate towards, disabled people.

However, I absolutely draw the line at me or my family being assaulted//injured in any way. That goes for everyone, whether disabled or not. Why shouldn't I?

Every member of the public has the right to go about their lives without fear of assault and injury.

Carers are obviously needed for some people in order for them to get out and about. Are there enough carers? Is there sufficient funding for them (probably not)? How are they trained to deal with situations if their charge assaults other members of the public or even the carers themselves?

It's disgraceful that there are now so many threads where young children are violent in school and they are the ones protected.

Pupils being violent is school does not mean they are SEN. They may be, they may not be. From a victim/parents/other children point of view they may not see any action because they have no right to know what action has been taken. (Though other children are not always protected as they should be).

If someone is violent against me, I will go to the police whether the person is disabled or not.

Where does it say it's ok for a child with sen in school to attack others?

How do I know whether the person is intellectually disabled or not? If someone starts hitting me or pulling my hair they are assaulting me and I would react the same way whether they were NT or ND because I'm not going to stand there letting them carry on while I work out what I should do. I may shout, stamp on their foot, kick out (or of course I may freeze) but I'm their welfare is not my responsibility.

"How are they trained to deal with situations if their charge assaults other members of the public or even the carers themselves?"

Carers who work with people with challenging behaviour are supposed to receive training for this. All of my son's carers are trained for this. The public being assaulted should never happen with enough suitable carers who are vigilant and understand the behaviour of the person they are caring for.

If someone has a hidden disability that means they may hurt others, then those caring for them need to do everything they can to make sure they don’t.

It’s not ok to be on the receiving end of an assault, whoever is doing it. Surely the person needs to learn it’s not ok?

I know the threads you are talking about and quite frankly if my DD had her hair pulled like that I’d go nuts, not at the person with the hidden disability, but at whoever they were with for not managing their behaviour and for putting them and others in the position of a horrible incident.

"It’s not ok to be on the receiving end of an assault, whoever is doing it. Surely the person needs to learn it’s not ok?"

Some people will not be capable of learning this but they need managing in such a way that others are kept safe. Also if someone with a learning disability is hitting out we need to look at why they are doing it. A lot of challenging behaviour stems from pain for example.

Really annoys me too!
I have a DD with Autism who is 6 and I am the only person around her who has the patience and calmness she needs from someone at home.

Her dad can’t cope with her and neither can relatives. They all say she needs a smack and to shoved off up to bed. But my calm approach to her helps her. When she is overwhelmed and has scratched me for example, I give her a cuddle to diffuse the situation. Imagine that!

My calmness becomes her calmness.

And I’m sure if she displayed the same challenging behaviours at school (where she masks), the teachers wouldn’t be using abusive techniques towards her. Abuse never works, whether at school or at home. That’s why schools don’t use it and that’s why I don’t use it.

I am very much aware of your point but the point I am making is that there is physically a huge difference between a toddler slapping you and a fully grown man slapping you, so asking if you would react in the same way does not make sense.

A fully grown man has a massive amount more strength than a toddler and could do an enormous amount more damage to another person.

A toddler has the strength of a toddler. A fully grown man has full adult strength behind them even if they only have the mental age of a toddler.

Not remotely comparable.

I expect people are trying to compare capacity not strength or impact. Many toddlers have infinitely better communication skills than some learning disabled or non verbal people.

But it's strength and impact that are more important in a physical assault. So "what if it was a toddler" makes no sense.

Would it help to think “what if it was a girl with a similar disability” or “what if it was an elderly lady with dementia” so you are focused on capacity?

I don't need to focus on capacity as it's irrelevant in a physical attack.

Actually yes I would call the police on an assault eve if I assumed the person was ND. If nothing else they may be a danger to the public. I wouldn’t call the police on a 4yo as they haven’t reached the age of criminal al responsibility and can’t do the harm a 24yo for example can.

You have actually infantilised ND people OP by assuming none should ever be held to the same standards as NT people. Giving ND a free pass on crime is a very dangerous and slippery slope and also minimises how victims feel.

I have been assaulted by a ND person. It didnt hurt less, it didn’t make me think “Oh but what about him. I’m afraid I did put “me and mine” first. Not sorry.

Hurting other people is where my tolerance stops.

First post nails it.

OP, Where would your tolerance end?
I have ND children and they have over the years got into huge trouble for their behaviour.
Thankfully not so much these days. The most recent incident involved another child who was also ND. Should they have been allowed to batter the shit out of each other? Fight to the death? Or should an adult have intervened ? Physically if necessary?

I think young people with disabilities, and esp those with hidden disabilities, have been massively short-changed by 'inclusion' in education, where there has been no extra funding (because the real reason for 'inclusion' was to save money) and mainstream schools are a poor environment for them.

Ditto most inclusion - it's really exclusion, hurt and pain.

I am going to say it because nobody else has.

If my child went in every day and caused havoc in school, hit and injured other children, upended the classroom, lashed out and caused harm, punched, kicked, bit, spat at both children and teachers, would I send them in every day knowing other children were terrified and getting hurt? No I would not. Who benefits from that? An ND child who cannot cope, gets distressed and cannot learn and 29 other children who are scared to death of my child hurting them badly, also cannot learn and a teacher who has to evacuate a classroom of children because of MY child?

Would I sent them in regardless and knowingly with the excuse I HAVE to do it to "fight" for a specialist setting for them so just let them do their worst to other kids every single day until something is done without any regard for the 29 other kids in the class who's lives are being made a misery and a teacher who cannot cope.

Kids who hurt others, lash out , cause harm, fear, injury and destruction should not be in a mainstream setting. End of.

There was a thread on this. I only use it if something is funny ha ha - but am sparing as I realise it is open to misinterpretation (so only the obviously hilarious, that is meant to be hilarious).

Kids who hurt others, lash out , cause harm, fear, injury and destruction should not be in a mainstream setting. End of.

I would say Kids who hurt others, lash out , cause harm, fear, injury and destruction should not be in an any setting with inadequate support. End of.

The issue is not if a child should be in mainstream school or a specialist setting because that would change based on their needs, it’s really about where they can be best supported.

I presume you mean WITHOUT adequate support. A ND child would have the best support in a specialised setting that caters for their unique needs. Throwing them in to a classroom with 29 other NT children in a mainstream setting where they cannot cope, the other kids cannot cope and the teacher cannot cope is not the place for them.

That might be true for some children in some situations but many disabled children with appropriate support and or accommodations do well in MS schools and many do very badly in specialist provision.