Wtf is wrong with people when it comes to hidden disabilities?

[Whatthebarnacles]

Full on rant incoming! Ready to be flamed in the depths on MN hell for this but it really is a hill I'm happy to die on so whatever will be, will be!

I'm absolutely sick to the back teeth of certain people on here who eye roll and sneer that those with hidden disabilities should be treated the same as neuro typical people.

Non verbal, lashing out? Report to police for assault - how dare they lay a hand on someone else 🙄

Can't sit still / constantly stims? Expel them from school - why should my "normal child" be affected?🙄

Stares and makes noises? Tell them you're uncomfortable and to stop immediately, we have the right not to be ogled.🙄

Can we please just stop it?! It's like the world's gone mad! All the years of effort to try and make people aware of hidden disabilities just seems to have crumbled an i've seen it happenn in here over the last 6 months or so more than ever. There seems to be an almighty wave of this incredibly farcical "BUT ME AND MINE" or "MY RIGHTS" just smash through the work that had been done and its depressing as shit.

Would you call the police or kick off on someone who spilled a cuppa over you then laughed? Or caught your face , if...

1. They were 4 years old? Nope, so why would you for someone with intellectual disabilities? You would talk to the carer. Rightly so.

1. If they had Parkinsons? Would you bollocks. Because you can SEE that disability and because its a physical one, then it can't be helped, right?

1. They were clearly ND?

There are countless people in here who would because, according to them, they do not have the right / there needs to be consequences / they're an adult regardless / i am woman hear me roar etc.

I cant get my head around the lack of understanding

And don't get me started on those who turn these things into "us women" need to defend ourselves. And faux outrage "would they have done it to a man? I don't think so!" Urgh. Yes... they would. A disability is a disability, a stim is a stim, a jolt is a jolt. Hair is dangly, splashing someone or spilling something is funny, stimming is calming on the inside whilst frantic in the outside.

Frankly, it turns my stomach. Why is the world so angry at people who are different at the moment?!

I can only presume that the number of people now having been diagnosed is pissing these people off. I've honestly never ever heard so much "just because they're xyz doesn't mean that..." in my life. See also "they need to learn" or "they should know"...

I fret for my son growing up in this. He doesn't stand a cat in hells chance.

YABU - Of course ND people, should be treated the same as NT people when it comes to differing behaviour, regardless of mental age or physical disabilities associated with their condition.

YANBU - MN is rife with it at the moment, I've noticed that too.

Annnnnd..... crucify me. GO!!

This is awful and I can't believe the man's parents tried to excuse his hideous actions. The only person that should matter in this situation is the poor victim. If his parents/carers knew that he was capable of this but let him roam freely they should be charged with neglect. He should do time, I'm not saying I think Belmarsh is the best place (that would be for a judge to decide) but we can't have people in society that don't understand that being a pedophile is wrong.

I remember you too, and your accusations. I was laughing at you, not at disabled children. I'm disabled myself, which as I recall, you didn't seem to like.

Please point out where I am supposed to have laughed at disabled children on this thread, to warrant the, "too".

I'll wait.

It was a Genuine question as to what you think I should do if I’m not to shout at someone attacking my kid? And as they things happen in a split second, I’m not able to comment to know if someone is disabled - after all the thread is about hidden disabilities.

Not once have I said people should be kept out of sight - that was your words. I very much disagree with it.

Actually, I've found that if you're a carer and you take responsibility for the behaviour of the person in your care then people are actually really understanding. Even on mumsnet. You will always get trolls here, but the response to posts complaining about disabled people whose carers have apologised and taken responsibility tend to be a lot more supportive than the posts about carers who haven't taken responsibility.

The reality is when you care for a disabled person everything that happens is on the carer. IF for some reason the disabled person in your care lashes out lots then you need to ensure that you have additional supervision to mitigate or you need to encourage them away from triggering places. People have a right to be safe.

My daughter has a learning disability. It's very much hidden in the sense that she's not violent. Although she does stim and say inappropriate/unfiltered things you'd expect a younger child to say rather than a pre teen.

She goes to a school for children with learning disabilities. She's not violent, but a child in her friendship group with a similar disability can display violent behaviour including but not limited to screaming in people's faces and banging someone's head into an IT cubicle because she was frustrated. My child fell victim to her outbursts on a daily basis. The school hadn't been made aware of these behaviours by the child's last setting so it was a shock at the beginning of term rather than a lapse on their part. The class now has an extra teaching assistant who basically shadows my daughter's friendship group to manage the child's outbursts and intervenes. Myself and the school have taught my daughter to hold her own boundaries, and in certain lessons my daughter and the other child are separated because the other child gets frustrated my daughter has a particular skill she doesn't have so lashes out.

We are lucky with my daughter's behaviour and don't have to avoid many places, but we don't go to absolutely packed restaurants because the amount of people triggers my daughter and she becomes unsure/uncoordinated so will bump into people and tables. And if she knocks someones food/drink over it's on me and morally I have to replace it.

My daughter does stim but if she suddenly starts doing a disruptive stim and accidentally invades someone's personal space (sometimes she randomly starts spinning with no warning), I apologise and try and redirect her to a less disruptive stim. If I have no success then where possible I take her to a quiet corner until she's regulated, or if I'm with my husband one of us will remove her from the situation because it's quicker and easier.

I'm rambling now but I suppose my point is, even if disabled people don't have capacity, the people who are caring for them do, and it's on us to make sure the behaviour of those we care for doesn't cause others harm.

My ds is autistic but I have been on the receiving end of someone pulling my hair due to a hidden disability and I didn’t act calmly. I was pregnant at work and had just started spotting, I was leaving to go to a&e when an elderly man, who I didn’t realise had dementia, walked up behined me and yanked on my hair. I was already in a state at the time and I hit his hand away and snapped at him.
I understand that it is the carers responsibility to keep them safe and protect others from being hurt and it wasn’t this man’s fault however you can’t expect people to not react or not be pissed off when they have been physically assaulted no matter who is way by.

It isn't acceptable to hurt others - physically or in other ways, and disability should never be an excuse

Society should be as inclusive as possible - but inclusion at the expense of the health and well-being of others isn't acceptable

And yes that will mean there are things that sone disabled people won't / shouldn't be able to do

A lot of this is down to cost - it costs a huge amount of support some people and as a society we are not stumping up the tax returns to enable that level of support, and the impact on some lives is therefore extremely distressing.

It's not aa simple as "hide them away" /"fully include " option - it's complex and expensive and sad

However we won't get greater inclusion if some people think it's ok to hurt others

If your child hits my child its irrelevant whether your child has a disability or not, my child was still hurt.

It would be the EXACT same if my gran ( who had dementia and could be violent) hit my child.

Yes i acknowledge the disability caused it but the outcome is still the same, my child is hurt and traumatized.

I know plenty of parent/carers who have called the police on their own disabled child - it is often the only way to get support (and you generally have to do it more than once).

My oldest son is autistic and went to a special school. It is NOT ok to hit, full stop. You say it one of his stims, but it is still not ok. A big, adolescent boy without can be intimidating. A big, adolescent ND boy who is hitting out will appear menacing and threatening. This is a fact and not anti-disability. You need help to get him to stop this behaviour before it gets him into real trouble. By the way, l am deaf, which is another hidden disability and one that is very misunderstood. I would say that deafness is is less understood and tolerated than ND these days. However, l am not looking for special treatment, only a little understanding.

I don’t have much experience in this area so happy to be told I’m wrong but I feel it’s a bit more nuanced. For example one of the examples is parents objecting to a ND child being aggressive and or disrupting their child’s class and that people should be more understanding. I agree however these children and clearly not coping in a mainstream setting and due to government cuts there aren’t enough SN provisions as we all know. So surely it would follow that if we are all just more understanding and stay quiet about these things then the government wins and nothing changes. Surely if there are multiple parents raising concerns about one child this can then be used as evidence that the child isn’t coping and could in the end help the child get an appropriate placement? Likewise if someone is violent in public and we just smile awkwardly and look away because they may be ND then what? What happens to the next person they hurt? If the police were contacted the persons SW would likely be informed and possibly a review of care brought forward? I don’t think people are being generally dismissive of people with hidden disabilities, people are angry about the cuts in social care which has benefited absolutely no body. And we should raise concerns to put pressure on services and in turn on the government.

I’m not sure you really understood my post.

My condition causes me to have painful, unexpected and often violent looking limb spasms. Where possible (especially in busy/loud places) I will use my wheelchair and make arrangements to sit separately with space around me.

Sadly many people see this as a way of gaining extra space for themselves and will sit virtually on top of me. I will politely explain the issues I have, either by making a joke of it, warning them or just asking for more space.
Despite this people rarely move. I’m not proud of it but I’ve accidentally kicked and hit several people as a result of these spasms.

Usually whoever the child is, I get in between the two children, raise my voice and say "No" in an authorotative tone while extending my arm and facing my palm to them in a "stop" sign. I don't shout because if a child isn't disabled, if they're behaving that badly they likely come from an environment where that behaviour is the norm and shouting doesn't mean authority. The stop sign is a universal sign which is one of the first Makaton signs taught in educational settings to children with additional needs and children with English as a second language. If they don't stop I remove my child to stop her being hurt again.

Agree with this. I have a friend whose child was violent in class, she was practically pulling her own hair out trying to get him support. Several parents approached her to say their child had been hit, so she asked them to report it to the school. The other parents had been trying to be tolerant and understanding but it was only when they started complaining to the school that support was finally put in place. It also made life easier for my friend as the other parents appreciated the fact that she recognised their children getting hit was not ok and she wasn’t expecting their children to tolerate it.

I think you're missing the point - a fully grown man with the mental age of a toddler still has the strength of a fully grown man. Unlike the toddler.

My son goes to a special school they use symbols ,such as a traffic light ssytern the kids know ,red mean s mean no ,and thumbs 👍 means the behaviour is desirable and thumbs down means the behaviour is undesirable
They also use consistent language
Such as I like it or I don't like it with regards to behaviour
And when they want to the child to stop doing something they say " activity has finished.

Also just to add to my previous comment. Jonty bravery (the man who through the child off the Tate modern) and axel rudakubana (Southport killer) both had autism, a “hidden disability”. Are you seriously saying that when they first started showing signs of violent behaviour to members of the public people should have been more understanding and not phoned the police. Maybe if people had objected and complained stronger things would have been different, sadly we will never know.

I have remembered another point. The rule that was displayed most prominently at his special school, both in words and pictures was "We keep our hands and feet to ourselves." Disability was never allowed to be used as an excuse. If you are out and about with your son and realise he is about to lash out at someone, you MUST intervene and you MUST be apologetic if the worst comes to the worst and you MUST make him aware and understand that he is never allowed to hurt anyone, that he is in big trouble and will be punished for any misdemeanor of this nature. I think that the reason the problem has reached this stage is that you have been telling yourself and everyone else that he can't help it because he has disabled. It should have been nipped in the bud from the beginning. It will be much harder now, but you MUST persevere or he will end up in real trouble.

This.

Not a chance that any living being would get away with that. I’d be failing my child by not standing up for them.

Which if fine if you are only two steps away. If they are the other side of the playground I would shout as I ran towards them.

*is disabled.

Your talking about SEN children in particular, do you mean only they are protected? Where is the evidence? How do you know this? Stop assuming! What about all the other children who bully SEN kids are they protected from them? What about SEN kids whos needs are not met. You have no idea what it's like until you have a disability or a child with SEN.

If you're happy for someone to attack you or yours so be it...

If you expect others to find it not only acceptable but to have to put up with someone lashing out and attacking them just because they have any form of disability you're part of why we have a growing violent population.

But the carer in the case being referred to should have been aware/stepped in and absolutely should have stopped the second time.

That's the issue

You can’t compete a 4 year old to an adult who is neurodiverse. The case of the mother witnessing her daughters hair being pulled could have ended very nastily as it was an adult with adult strength not a 4 year old who you’d literally be able to man handle and get them to let go. Ridiculous comparison.