Constantly disruptive child in my daughter's class

[waitingforsainos]

DD is Y6 and this other child seems to be causing so much trouble in class every day, shouting at the teacher, slamming doors, flicking light switches on and off, randomly screaming in the middle of a lesson when they don't want to do the work, mouthing off if other kids get to do something different because they've behaved well. DD says it's every lesson.

On the whatsapp group, the child's mum has said it's not their fault, they've got an ehcp for semh (think that's mental health?) and has laughed at the teacher when she's been asked to go inside to talk at the end of the day.

From the parent chat, it sounds like the child has had a few suspensions but doesn't seem to have made any difference.

AIBU to expect more from school? What would happen in your child's school if someone behaved like that?

Can anyone explain why children with severe behavioural problems are in mainstream schools? Is it parents pursuing mainstream schools as as opposed to a special school? What is in it for the child who isn't suited to this environment?

Because they can’t get a spot in a special provision school. Parents are gutted their kids are in mainstream as it’s not what is best for them. The only thing ‘in it’ for the child is a whole lot of misery.

People should be contacting MP’s to get the underlying funding issue resolved rather than bitching about the parents (who have had no choice other than giving up as they can’t obtain a spot in a suited school).

No idea but if a child is physically abusing others in an environment that’s meant to be a safe space for all children, and they’re the age of criminal responsibility, the school can decide what to do if I called the police. Up until now the school has done absolutely nothing. I don’t expect my own sweet and kind SEN daughter to be punched in the face at school, the same way I don’t expect to go to work and be punched in the face.

It's unfair. The government should, at worst, pay for separate permanent childcare rooms for such children who disrupt so many others and cause grief and mental health issues for teachers.

It could be cost effective to pay their parents to keep them home.

And regrettably that child's behaviour is causing childhood trauma for the 29 other children in the class. If someone shouted and swore at me at work, I could walk away. Children are trapped in a classroom or school with a daily threat of physical or verbal abuse or violent behaviour. They have no escape and witnessing and experiencing this behaviour is normalised for them. It's heartbreaking it's allowed to happen. Children with significant behavioural problems should not be in mainstream education.

And regrettably that child's behaviour is causing childhood trauma for the 29 other children in the class. If someone shouted and swore at me at work, I could walk away. Children are trapped in a classroom or school with a daily threat of physical or verbal abuse or violent behaviour. They have no escape and witnessing and experiencing this behaviour is normalised for them. It's heartbreaking it's allowed to happen. Children with significant behavioural problems should not be in mainstream education.

The cause doesn't matter.
Saying there should be integration in mainstream schools doesn't matter.
The fact is governments are not providing funding for the best options. At worst, they have to protect all those around violent, unruly children.

This is because we don't have enough specialist schools. I know because my dd needs one.

My comment about working at Tesco or McDonald's referred to the fact that if a badly behaved person cannot work at an entry level job, then they'd be unlikely to progress in life. Therefore, they need to be taught what pro-social behaviour is as soon as possible for them to thrive in the world.

Isn’t this true of everyone though? It’s disablist to attribute this purely to those with additional needs.

Children and parents think that children like that should be excluded; the authorities don't care what mayhem they cause so long as it doesn't become their problem.

Given the talk today of what’s potentially in the Spring Budget that’s not going to be on the cards.

The Government (and the previous ones too before anyone accuses me of being anti-labour) have zero interest in protecting the lives & rights of children with additional needs. It’s a total shitshow & has been for decades.

To pay parents to stay home could work.
Parents could form supportive clusters and go on excursions to learn specialised, individualised ways of educationg their child to strive in their local community.

This is an interesting idea. How would this work - a centralised scheme to match families? Children with SEN who need to be in more focused environments need enriching social activity as well & the majority of parents don’t have the capacity to provide home education. Realistically the VAT add to private school fees has been a huge problem here because a lot of the children who relied on the smaller classes on offer in an independent environment are those with additional needs & families have had to pull their children out because it’s become financially prohibitive.

The education system in this country is a total catastrophe but has been for years. Children with additional needs have been overlooked meaning their mainstream colleagues are unfairly impacted. It was the same in the 90’s - the closure of ‘special schools’ 30 years ago caused acute damage to many.

I don't think disruptive children in school is a new phenomenon. I remember lots of disruptive kids in my class going back 25/30 years. It is awful for the other kids though, and I think schools need to work with parents for more effective punishment . There was an 11 year old stabbed by another pupil at a primary school in Dublin yesterday.

My year 5 child had to be off school for a day while the police investigated the ‘extent and intention’ of a plot to murder her in the school yard made over a group chat of 10 of her classmates. When searched one kid had a spent shot gun cartridge in his school bag and when asked about it by the police he said he wanted to use it to prove to the class that he was serious about what he’d said in the chat.

he got a three day suspension, another kid got two days, one got two days ‘in school suspension’ whatever that is and one kid lost their lunchtime for one day.

that was it!! She had to go back to school and be in class with the kids with nothing more than a ‘risk assessment’ which read more like she was the problem because of her SEN!!

This was all at an outstanding school in the suburbs, sadly it’s happening everywhere at the minute!

We shouldn't need so many specialist schools.

A lot of the problem seems to be that schools have very little they can do to enforce normal behavior requirements on normal kids.

So parents in desperation try to find out what's wrong with their kids who won't behave in hope of getting them controlled better. When what's really wrong with most of them is that they need minimal discipline.

Yes, the correlation is that typical parenting doesn't work for PDA kids and makes behaviour worse and sends the kid into burnout. Low demand parenting is actually very very hard to do right, but it's what PDA kids need.

These threads are always so depressing to read. I have a PDA 6 year old. She has no screen time except for watching gentle cbeebies shows. We spend a lot of time playing outside or doing craft activities together as she needs almost constant undivided attention. We work through social scenarios regularly with role play and social stories because she finds it very difficult to navigate. But somehow I'm a lazy parent because she still struggles at school and is sometimes disruptive.

There aren't enough specialist school places. It's hard or everyone. teacher, the non-disabled children in the class but trust me, it's a special place of hell for a disabled child to be placed on a setting that is wholly unsuitable. Parents are fighting left right and centre. You are aware of the lasted SENDIst tribunal data? only 1.3% of cases are won by local authorities. Tells you everything you need to know.

They should but even getting the LA to do a needs assessment or even involve the right professionals in the assessment is virtually impossible, it’s why 95% of SEN decisions at tribunal were upheld that means 95% of those decisions made by local authorities around support that are appealed are deemed unlawful and not meeting the needs of the child. There were 21,000 appeals last year

if the child is that disruptive then they shouldnt be in school full-stop. Its absolutely ridiculous that anyone thinks that the other 20-30 kids should be forced to suffer and have their education ruined just because of one child . Other countries dont do this, it is completely ridiculous.

If the child is disruptive and wont improve, then they need to be expelled. If there are no special school places left then too bad, the parents can work something out (or not). Whatever. Butt hey have absolutely no right to ruin the education of 20-30 innocent kids who have done absolutely nothing wrong.

He has. right to an education - just like any other child. People always think SEN education is only the problem of those with SEN. Well, let me tell you, it's not! This sort of attitude is not helping and it's frankly disgusting.

he is in school and rightly so (just the wrong sort of setting). it's not his fault if there aren't suitable places elsewhere whether you like it or not.

He does not have a right to an education at the expense of others. He is disrupting the education of the cihldren in his class -- they are the victims here, not him

Its disgusting that you think that 20-30 children should be forced to suffer and potentially have their lives ruined - just to appease one disruptive child.

People like you are the main problem with the education system at the moment.

Hi. Mother of an autistic 5 year old with PDA here.

I think you will find that all children over 5 in the UK have a legal right to education. Disability is a protected characteristic. Schools are also legally obliged to make reasonable adjustments for children with SEN. If your child has come across neurodiversity at school, it would be a great opportunity to teach them about inclusivity and boundaries, as they will likely come across other neurodiverse people at work and in other environments throughout their life, and will need coping skills just like SEN children to protect their own boundaries and have their own coping strategies for dealing with the diverse range of people that they might encounter in the future. If, for example, a child with SEN shouts out in class, why not offer your own child loop ear plugs? There are reasonable things all members of society can do to support and include all other people.

If you are unhappy with the mainstream state provision provided for your child, you are entirely within your rights to move them to a private school setting instead. You are lucky to have that option available to you as at least those settings have places available.