Constantly disruptive child in my daughter's class

[waitingforsainos]

DD is Y6 and this other child seems to be causing so much trouble in class every day, shouting at the teacher, slamming doors, flicking light switches on and off, randomly screaming in the middle of a lesson when they don't want to do the work, mouthing off if other kids get to do something different because they've behaved well. DD says it's every lesson.

On the whatsapp group, the child's mum has said it's not their fault, they've got an ehcp for semh (think that's mental health?) and has laughed at the teacher when she's been asked to go inside to talk at the end of the day.

From the parent chat, it sounds like the child has had a few suspensions but doesn't seem to have made any difference.

AIBU to expect more from school? What would happen in your child's school if someone behaved like that?

It’s not ‘worse in secondary’ at all as children in secondary who are violent are (in most schools) excluded.
I feel quite sorry for children and parents who in primary school do whatever they like, swearing at teachers, punching other kids and teachers and getting minor punishments and then have tremendous shock when the same behaviours they have been exhibiting in primary are treated far more harshly.
Primary schools need to get tough quickly.

No child should live in fear of a classroom
or not be able to learn. I don’t care if the kid has SEN, they are not more important than the learning or behaviour of 29 other children and it’s about time schools realised that. If that means kids working on their own or outside the heads office for long periods then so be it.

It is students with special needs (particularly ASD) who suffer most when classrooms are chaotic so why should the special needs of violent disrupters trump the special needs of other students with SEN who want to learn?

@Franjipanl8r @Covertcollie Thank you for explaining that is terrible

The child being violent is being failed too here. Everyone is being failed. Getting an EHCP is really hard. A specialist placement on to of that virtually impossible. The parents need to be really clued up and know how to fight fight fight for a suitable placement, but parents of Sen kids are by definition exhausted.

You can’t have a special school place without an EHCP naming that school. It takes time and persistence to get an EHCP, the LA save money by keeping the child in mainstream. The primary have a very difficult process to work through and can be sanctioned for excluding disruptive children.

Ah, I’m in Scotland where permanent exclusion is totally banned. We have to live with these situations.

So many special needs kids who school refuse to do as they cannot cope with the chaos currently happening in state schools. And they wonder why persistent absence is through the roof.

Its not hard to see how these things are all linked.

Mainstream schools are expected to accommodate children with a wide range of additional needs and often do not have enough funding or staff. They are probably doing their best but yes it's disruptive and also probably not meeting that poor child's needs either.

Poor you. Thats utterly ridiculous.
two boys were excluded at my school a while ago for pissing in a bottle and forcing a younger child to drink it while videoing him. Surely no one thinks that children like that should be allowed to stay in school?
(just to add those boys did not have SEN)

Meaning just because your child doesn't behave in a certain way doesn't mean others won't.

Yep

Yup. Kids are regularly charged with assault and are in school the next day. The child who has been assaulted by them is expected to be in school too. It’s insane! Temporary exclusions are allowed but cannot be given too regularly, so a child knows they have a few days where they can assault away without any consequences. It’s so disgraceful.

I see a big rise in pupils with a PDA profile in our school. Very difficult to accommodate in a mainstream or SEN classroom. It is a full time job managing behaviour and very few have 1:1 supports. The system is broken 😞

Did you not read that the child has an EHCP for mental health?

It's not an excuse. The child literally has a diagnosis of mental health issues. You can't undo them by being a better parent. Watch out for karma.

I think not enough thought is given to the kids affected by the behaviour of the disruptive ones, in particular other kids with SEN who will often have a harder time coping with shouting/screaming/interruption than most.

NT kids might be able to get back to doing their work after the disruptive one is sent to the SLT or whatever, but the quiet kids with SEN probably struggle with that.

Seems like they’re a bit forgotten at times.

Is that a primary or secondary school?

God I can’t even write on here what I’d do to those kids if it were my child having to drink that.

Why are a few misbehaving children allowed to disrupt the education of the majority of children who want to learn and get on in life? What purpose does it serve?

It is not an excuse. That is the problem.

Secondary.
The impression I get is that behaviour like that at Primary would result in a chocolate biscuit in the Heads office and a message to ‘Be Kind’

@Leafy74 what do you think the reason is for the massive increase in disruptive children in primary? When would you say you started to notice the increase?

I think the focus is on inclusion no matter what. So (from what I’ve read on MN) many schools are reluctant to even take the kid out of the class let alone go down exclusion routes.

I believe some local authorities fine schools for excursions too, and that they can affect OFSTED ratings.

My daughters class was like this except it was 4 kids,they've been terrorizing the class since reception and they are now in year 4. It's obviously come to a bit of a head this year and they have permanently excluded 3 of them since January. DD said the class is a completely changed environment and the other kids aren't in a permanent state of fear that something is going to kick off.

No but it's not a get out of behaving. These documents should contain strategies to help the child behave.

Unreal, honestly. I’d wind up in prison if I were that kids mum.

And yes, some time in the Quiet Tent, 30 mins of games on the school iPad and a biscuit before returning to class.

I’m not a Primary teacher but I would suggest that the rapid deterioration in behaviour in younger years came about when parents let their kids (particularly those with SEN) have unfiltered and uncontrolled access to screens and social media. We have kids in Year 7 calling teachers c**s regularly. When you talk to them the all play 18 games and watch adult content on YouTube.
the content added to the inability to concentrate for more than 5 minutes has caused huge problems.

All children are entitled to an education there are not enough specialist places
I have no skin in this as my child ,s needs are met in a special school, but provision is very variable across the UK.