Constantly disruptive child in my daughter's class

[waitingforsainos]

DD is Y6 and this other child seems to be causing so much trouble in class every day, shouting at the teacher, slamming doors, flicking light switches on and off, randomly screaming in the middle of a lesson when they don't want to do the work, mouthing off if other kids get to do something different because they've behaved well. DD says it's every lesson.

On the whatsapp group, the child's mum has said it's not their fault, they've got an ehcp for semh (think that's mental health?) and has laughed at the teacher when she's been asked to go inside to talk at the end of the day.

From the parent chat, it sounds like the child has had a few suspensions but doesn't seem to have made any difference.

AIBU to expect more from school? What would happen in your child's school if someone behaved like that?

RE: the increase in behaviour like this.

Of course we all know that the increase in SEN diagnoses are because of various factors like awareness, reduced stigma. So you’d expect the number of kids with SEN to be higher than 20 years ago.

But, when we (assuming we’re 30+ years old here) were at school, did you see a fraction of the behaviour that’s regularly described on MN? I didn’t. Maybe a cheeky kid or a fight between two boys. But nothing like how it is now.

So how do we account for that? Those kids with SEN existed back then (without a diagnosis), but they didn’t routinely beat up teachers.

What the hell has happened to make this so prevalent? If I’d called a teacher a cunt at school I wouldn’t have lived to tell the tale.

You're saying this but how is it viable that 29 other children have their education so badly effected by this sort of behaviour? Surely at some point the needs of the rest of the class should trump the needs of one of them?

Bad parenting.

Absolutely. They should be removed from the class. Their needs shouldn’t trump anyone else’s.

If they need to do their work in the SLT office, so be it. I dread my child going to school as I’ll be like a dog with a bone if any of this is going on.

It's the equivalent of having a person with diagnosed and uncontrolled bad mental health in an office environment. It won't work. They're not bad.

EHCP are very difficult to get. If the child has one for SEMH it is a very significantly bad problem which will likely have involved an assessment by an educational psychologist.

But of course, a random on the internet knows better about this child and parents they've never met and has diagnosed bad parenting.

I think we need to go back to the 1990s where we all were more balanced in how we dealt with things. Not too severe, but not bending over backwards to poor behaviour in the name of "coz SEND".

I feel for the parents who genuinely have children with SEN- they're probably all now tarred with the same brush as the poorly behaved kids who just need to actually be parented. SEN is now unfortunately becoming the next alphabet soup . We need to get back to actually supporting children with additional needs and being brave enough to recognise and deal with "bad behaviour". Why on earth should 20+ kids suffer because a teacher has to Pandy to a little horror.

What can the school do? The teacher is probably driven absolutely mad as it is. It's just one of those classes.

Sorry to hijack your thread. I started a thread raising concerns about behaviour in primary schools and got shut down by almost everyone. And yet here is the proof. I've got no practical suggestions, only came to say sorry that it's happening, it sounds rotten for your poor DD.

That's what I want to know. There were two lads in my entire year of about 400 kids who would probably be diagnosed with PDA type disorder, but even then, they weren't violent with teachers.

Arseholes yes, sometimes very funny but always rude and constantly disrespectful and disruptive.

I just can't understand why there are now so many kids with horrific behavioural problems. And it's not a case of "they were in the special schools" because where did they all go the day they left school?

I'm saying I don't know what the answer is but all children are entitled to an education more specialist provision would make sense to.me
I'm not getting into a trumping needs arguments as all children are being failed here .

Presumption of mainstreaming. One of the reasons we've chosen private education.

I think that’s why it has to come back to parenting and the things kids are allowed to do now.

Back in the early 00s we didn’t have unlimited internet access, Tik Tok, smartphones in bed with us at night. There’s no way that these things aren’t playing a part here.

Kid can’t sleep at night - must be ADHD. Have you tried taking their phone off them at a normal hour?

Kid can’t regulate their anger - must be a SEN. Are they playing GTA online til midnight at age 8?

Anxiety so bad they can’t face going to school. Is that because they have no real life contact with others and don’t know how to interact face to face?

The child has an EHCP so likely has a disability.

The problem here is lack of funding so not enough support for children with additional needs.

The problem is not:

Crap teachers
lazy/ineffective parents
awful children
The sooner we can all recognise the problem and stop this useless blame game the.better.

^

Effectual parenting would go a hell of a long way though, let's face it.

But parenting is hard, and a lot of parents just CBA

Neither should the rest of the class be disadvantaged and have their learning disrupted. Not their fault either. Whilst unfortunately there’s nothing the other parents can do about it, it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be unhappy about the situation.

It does make you wonder and I know it’s not popular but with many of these children it is down to poor parenting and not enough accountability for their actions. I shudder to think what the future holds and so glad mine are grown up.

Dnephew is diagnosed autistic/PDA and unsurprisingly, they actually... well, parent, very little

No consequences, ridiculous amounts of screen time, very low expectations of him behaviour wise.

I think there night be a correlation??

The child has an EHCP - very difficult to obtain and indicative of significant problems. I doubt bad or gentle parenting is a factor.

That's not true. You started a thread about wanting to homeschool because you don't believe in the school system. It was nothing to do with disruptive pupils.

People get shot down for suggesting a parent is in any way at fault for the behaviour of their offspring but I think it’s incredibly naive to believe that “all behaviour is communication” and that anyone acting the idiot in school is clearly disabled in some way.

Is that not offensive to disabled people? I’d imagine it is.

Yes there are kids in genuine need with genuine issues and parents who are probably at their wits end trying to make things work. But don’t pretend that every chair throwing, screaming, misbehaving child is in genuine need. Some of them are just badly behaved with no structure or discipline at home. Their parents probably find it funny that their little rouge is entertaining the class.

There’s no black or white answer here. And I don’t think anyone can judge a parent for being angry that their child is being disadvantaged by another.

Absolutely. I’m really surprised that there isn’t more investigation by the medical profession into this. It seems the autism diagnosis increase has occurred since the introduction of gaming, electronic devices, mobile phones. Childrens’ brains are developing, so their focus on electronics must have some effect long term. You see it in young children, primary and secondary, with their melt downs when parents try to limit their gaming. It’s like an addiction. Maybe there needs to be more awareness in the public arena in relation to potential long term problems when children are allowed unlimited gaming access, tablet and mobile phone usage.

Oh definitely. The meltdowns when gaming is restricted are crazy - have heard stories of kids threatening suicide if they don’t get their phone back. Tears, screaming, tantrums etc.

It’s not normal at all.

I have two kids with ADHD. Both in secondary school. One is fine in all but one lesson, and disruptive in that lesson. Because the teacher doesn't follow his reasonable adjustments and treats his slow processing as defiance. All the other teachers say he's well behaved and a lovely boy. DD is in a different school and regularly school refuses. Because she can't process information audibly and half the teachers won't write things on the board or check in that she's understood. She can't cope with the embarrassment and overwhelm and punishment for her symptoms like slow processing. Between them they have gone through 8 years of secondary teaching and I have never had a single year when every teacher follows the support they are supposed to, to allow my kids to access education equally and I regularly have to fight for something that is in their plan to be followed. My kids go to the best schools in the area. We are in a nice middle class grammar school.

My kids are much stricter parented than most kids I know. They certainly don't have unlimited screens and are regularly told no. Their screens are off at bedtime. The 16 year old only just got instagram, is not allowed other social media and has never played GTA. We are in year 3 of the youngest waiting to see a consultant on the NHS for meds. The system is screwed, and the NHS support and teaching is deeply flawed. There may be poor parenting out there, but schools and the NHS are absolutely to blame too.

Quote from my OP: "I am also worried about some horror stories related to worsening behaviour."

DD is lucky that there is only one. At DS's school, the kid would get a little treat for that kind of behaviour. Total madness.