Constantly disruptive child in my daughter's class

[waitingforsainos]

DD is Y6 and this other child seems to be causing so much trouble in class every day, shouting at the teacher, slamming doors, flicking light switches on and off, randomly screaming in the middle of a lesson when they don't want to do the work, mouthing off if other kids get to do something different because they've behaved well. DD says it's every lesson.

On the whatsapp group, the child's mum has said it's not their fault, they've got an ehcp for semh (think that's mental health?) and has laughed at the teacher when she's been asked to go inside to talk at the end of the day.

From the parent chat, it sounds like the child has had a few suspensions but doesn't seem to have made any difference.

AIBU to expect more from school? What would happen in your child's school if someone behaved like that?

This. What exactly do you expect the school to do? There's no money in the state system. An EHCP is extremely difficult to get so suggests quite severe needs. I guess it doesn't cover a 1:1 though. What do you think the school could be doing that they are not already doing?

Many parents of autistic kids say their dc need a lot of screen time to self regulate. There must be other alternatives surely?

Exactly. The educational system and lack of funding of it is the issue here, not the kid (who is presumably disabled).

I hear so much the answer is ‘funding’. Can someone explain to me how money solves this problem? You would still have kids on screens at all hours and crap parenting.

It is extremely difficult to get a place in an SEN school. Hell, it's extremely difficult to get an EHCP at all and most have to go through tribunal and appeals to get one. SEN school places cost more than mainstream, so LAs do all they can to avoid. Many parents would LOVE for their child to go to a decent SEN school but sadly that door is usually kept firmly closed.

Mine both do but they are not disrespectful or rude. And they enjoy a great deal of non-screen time.

Absolutely this. My son is at an independent SEN school and it costs an absolute fortune but there are classes of 7/8 with 3 adults as a minimum. The facilities as excellent, pastoral care superb, onsite OT & SALT, workshops, a whole load of stuff. For the bargain price of £80k per year to the LA. Unsurprisingly it’s very hard to get a place at a school like this.

My child had similar. It was driving her crazy. I knew there was no fighting this - school is for all, right?

I coached my daughter on strategies on how to get along even with these distractions. How to ignore, block it out, pretend it’s not happening. Self talk - it’s no big deal, I can still read when xyz is happening.. I can be calm when xyz is not calm. Xyz might be making noise … I can’t hear it if I don’t want to hear it.
Child was not in her class the next year.

At very least maybe it helped my DD to cope in chaos and maybe useful as good skill someday.

It’s completely natural to be worried about your own child in this situation & I would be talking to the school about what additional support is available for this other child so the impact to the overall class is minimised. DD is in a prep & I’m assuming (perhaps wrong) that you’re talking about a primary school so I’m not 100% clear of the procedures but I was under the impression that state schools have a duty to provide individual support in this sort of situation. I admit I could be wildly off here but it isn’t fair that this child can disrupt the class in this way. I wonder whether the mother is equally frustrated & is getting mega defensive because she feels utterly helpless. Very tough & I hope you find a solution.

My thoughts exactly 😡

@Hexagonsareneverround In the case of the disruptive children my son experienced in primary school (who were cousins) it was very much the family resisting specialist schools rather than lack of provision. They were the second and third children in their families respectively to go to the school and each older sibling had eventually ended up at specialist school but still the parents insisted on mainstream. One had 1-2-1 support and the other regularly went to additional support and at times was only in school mornings but still they were extremely disruptive. Eventually the more severely disruptive one left to go to specialist school and the other has stayed in mainstream at secondary. We ensured my son went to a different secondary (for that and other reasons to be fair).

There have been many studies that show screen time is extremely detrimental to all children. It may be a short term soothing method, but there has to be a better way. I realise I am saying this from the position of not having a child with SEN but my brother has autism (we grew up in the 80s) so screen time wasn’t really a thing (although he was allowed to watch films) & I spent time working with children with autism so have some knowledge (however basic). It’s addictive for everyone but also a break for parents who must desperately rely on it. There are options out there to replace screens … for example Lego is a big winner with SEN children.

What an ignorant comment.

This is one of the most horrific things I’ve read on this platform. Those poor children, that must have been so deeply traumatic.
The children who subjected to that should absolutely be excluded but these problems often stem from neglectful home environments & behaviour can escalate (or they can be at genuine risk) if the schools don’t have eyes on them. It’s often a way to safeguard (however wrong that is).

Please don't connect SEN to poor behavior. It's offensive to the millions of disabled people who don't misbehave!

A child being naughty needs discipline, every time. Pandering to them does them no favors in the long run. What's going to happen when said child gets a job in Tesco or McDonald's? They won't get away with it, and they need to be told that now.

Why would a child with SEN only be able to expect a job in Tesco or McDonald’s? It’s this low expectation of people with additional needs that makes achievement so challenging.

It would depend on the level of SEN that being said working in McDonald's or Tesco are not terrible jobs both csn offer lots of progression.

SEN will cover a very wide range of abilities and behaviour
Somebody with very mild SEN might have no behavioral issues other the other end of the spectrum a n individual could have a high level of behavioral issues due to their SEN and or disabilities.

No, they’re not & I agree about the progression but they are widely known as being low paid (particularly to start with) roles so it seems an unfair comment. It essentially perpetuates the idea that children with SEN cannot aspire to a university education & should be grateful for whatever measly exam results a school can carry them through. I appreciate I am also generalising here!!

How terrible for all the kids in class.
I would form a parental alliance. Band together to approach the school to have the offending child removed from the classroom.
There are too many children being negatively impacted for that behaviour to be tolerated.
The school has a duty to provide education for the children and a duty of care to provide a safe work place for the classroom teacher. Can the menacing child be withdrawn and educated separately, one to one, or in a small group?

If no safety can be guaranteed for teacher and children the offending child should be sent home to be home schooled.

But again it depends on the individual of course someone with SEN who is of least average ability could potentially go to university but many won't not because nobody has faith in them but because they don't have the ability
Thst doesn't mean of course they can ,t be successful in other areas of their life

Completely agree - it’s so sad that it’s the general perception that people with SEN can’t achieve. My brother (who has autism) has an MA but struggles to get a job because of the way he presents at interview. I raised a formal complaint with a previous employer of his (one of the few times he has been successful at interview) because they made zero allowances for him & unnecessarily put him in positions that they knew would be challenging for him. Whilst I appreciate it was a business & it has demands, this is a very big organisation with plenty of jobs to be done & he could easily have been considered sensitively. But he wasn’t because people made assumptions & it’s horrible.

Trauma is the root cause of most of the significant behaviour problems I have seen.
Some posters on here have absolutely no idea.

@user1492757084 what legal grounds do you think the parents could force the school to remove the child?

Our local Special school had 100 referrals for 10 places. There are not enough places.

At least one local authority is considering fining schools £20k for every permanent exclusion, because that authority is skint. That authority is also rationing EHCPs

State special school places cost minimum of circa £26k per pupil per annum, private special school places can cost around £100k. There’s a reason there aren’t many places

What do you imagine the police are going to do?