Constantly disruptive child in my daughter's class

[waitingforsainos]

DD is Y6 and this other child seems to be causing so much trouble in class every day, shouting at the teacher, slamming doors, flicking light switches on and off, randomly screaming in the middle of a lesson when they don't want to do the work, mouthing off if other kids get to do something different because they've behaved well. DD says it's every lesson.

On the whatsapp group, the child's mum has said it's not their fault, they've got an ehcp for semh (think that's mental health?) and has laughed at the teacher when she's been asked to go inside to talk at the end of the day.

From the parent chat, it sounds like the child has had a few suspensions but doesn't seem to have made any difference.

AIBU to expect more from school? What would happen in your child's school if someone behaved like that?

I entirely disbelieve this is written in the way you claim in an EHCP . I believe you have interpreted it this way.

To where? To whom? There simply aren't the staff! The education system is broken. Completely broken.

As it isn't known what causes SEN, your post is nonsense. The cause may well be genetic, but 'switched on', by environmentalinfluences. There has to be a reason it is so much more prevalent. Yes, there is more understanding, but there just weren't as many kids exhibiting autistic and adhd and pda behaviour.

The younger teachers are usually better. Trained in recent research and thinking. It is the middle aged closed mind old-school dinosaurs that are the problem!

Which sadly was forseen and foreseeable. SEN is the main part of the legal challenge.

I was about to reply that I would bet a significant sum of money on the disruptors being boys. Children would benefit from being educated separately from Year 1 primary.

I agree and I have children of both sexes. It’s such a shame we’ve closed all the single sex schools

In our local Secondary more girls than boys are currently being suspended

Good teachers are usually people who have a vocation for the job. And a lot of people are drawn to teaching but because the government have made the job impossible, most of those who feel drawn to it, don't go down that route.

The world has changed. It is not steady paced, with room for different people, particularly not in school.

It is fast paced and stressful. I’ve clearly seen this in my lifetime.

I’m so fed up of people holding up their hands and asking in a puzzled way “why are there more autistic people, what on earth is happening?” when to most autistic people the answer is bloody obvious!

Forcing people to live and work in a way that means they constantly have to ignore their innate needs creates unhealthy people. More people need diagnoses to cope with modern life. Education is broken, it needs to be fixed. Instead they wring their hands and find every other excuse and keep on doing the same things over and over again, whilst the problem gets bigger and bigger in front of our eyes.

Honestly I despair.

The world moves on. If these kids can't cope at school, how are they going to cope in the adult world?

School is a fixed thing. If you looked round 50 schools across the country they’ll largely be the same.

Work is different. Yes there’s an element that children are coming out of school unable to do things until they’ve recovered from their experiences, but once able to work there are many varied options.
If you can’t hack office work you have other options available to you. It’s not remotely the same as a school environment, which is now intolerable to many.

It’s estimated that only 9% of autistic people are working full time because of their disability. This current crisis in school is going to create a large problem in the future if schools aren’t encouraged to adapt and manage the situation. Like I said before, the SN kids are the canaries in the coal mines, ignore them at your peril. The next few years are going to be interesting.

Yes there were.

In trouble with the LA? Who has the issue with the exclusions?

Your job must be very hard, sounds like a constant battle.

Can we agree that if a child is throwing chairs there is no way they should be anywhere near other children, or do we have to wait until a child is struck and killed before the thrower is removed from school?

So many SEN parents see the calm atmosphere of mainstream private as their last resort. These are the parents who can’t really afford private and who will have to move their child back to mainstream. It’s devastating for these children.

If I recall correctly an area of Wales had proposed fining schools about £30k for every child they excluded. Shocking.

The whole system is a mess and it is not getting any better there is ministers at the moment calling to toughen parents rights on appeals and tribunals for Sen schools and also wanting to restrict sending Sen children to independent schools
they want to focus on mainstream for everyone and Sen schools not for the “ worse and most complex cases “

my DD has a huge range of Sen needs and disability but she is beautifully behaved and highly academic she has had an EHCP since she was 3 !
she went through 3 primary school placements and when consulting happened for secondary school she was refused on “ can’t meet needs “ from all local mainstream schools, all mainstream schools with units and all SEN schools.

now the Lea are having to pay in total 105k a year for to be in education. It’s so wild ! ( fees, additional provision and transport )

Of course we can agree on that.
But then you learn that several PRUs have gone and you start to realise even more that the system is a shambles.

The government and Ofsted.

The are right to be concerned and permanent exclusions should never done lightly but they seen to view an exclusion as a failure of the school.

I can agree that that child should be no where near children whilst throwing a chair or when having a meltdown.

This is a very difficult question for me. I’ve worked with children who are similar in their behaviour. Knowing their struggles will break your heart. They have had to cope with more trauma than any adults I know. At this point society has already failed them. They get moved sideways because no where has the staff or resources to cope.

On the other hand I don’t think other children’s mental health or education should suffer either.

You know I was going to post that personally I'd be speaking to the kids mother and telling her what for, then telling the head teacher of that kid doesn't get removed/my kids education get affected then I'd be taking legal action...then I've read a shit load of messages how it's not the kids fault, that the system is broken that ....so I thought I d be quite

Then I remembered in the 1970s there were at least 4 kids in my primary class who shouldn't have been in mainstream education but the teachers and their parents made sure that their actions didn't have any impact on the rest of us...ie they behaved because the punishment fitted the behaviour.

The child has an EHCP, so the school will have access to various support services such as specialist teachers, behaviour support, outreach from special schools and additional advice from an EP who can do follow up observation work.

Accessing those services varies from LA to LA, but schools shouldn't plod on thinking there's no help available. In fact, schools need to demonstrate they've called on extra support in order provide vital evidence as to why they can't meet a child's needs. Schools (and parents) also have the opportunity to call an early review to discuss what's happening, bring professionals around the table and formulate a plan to move forward.

Try telling that to th local authority and government when that child’s parents are trying desperately to get them into a specialist school and they are being turned down as they are saying a mainstream school can meet needs

That sounds great in theory but the issue we had when my son was in mainstream was that all those services you mentioned were chargeable to a school even if provided by the la or another school so the school were reluctant to engage them as they said it wouldn’t make any difference. This then caused us issues when we had emergency annual review as the la said the school couldn’t just say they couldn’t meet needs without trying everything first so as a parent you end up stuck and only option is tribunal which is lengthy. My son had ehcp with 32.5 hours ta when he was in mainstream, this was several years ago. Our la still only funds an ehcp with 32.5 hours at £8k a year so that plus the £6k the school is supposed to,provide from its own funds dont fund the full cost of a ta never mind additional support