Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

AIBU to be utterly horrified that the US has cut off military aid to Ukraine?

992 replies

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 04/03/2025 11:20

I was hoping that it was mostly just bluster from Trump. But we've woken up to the news that he has actually done it. He's literally swapped sides in the war and is now standing with the aggressor, Russia, and abandoning the victim, Ukraine.

At least some Americans are speaking out against the decision:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A09fa0e7f-6f1e-4770-9096-c5228d00635f#post

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A8510a9e0-ea40-4895-835d-bb747d6b0339#post

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A43d2db68-32ae-47f3-a550-8a5bd491beb9#post

Ukraine war latest: US pauses military aid to Ukraine as EU chief says Europe is 'ready to step up'

Meanwhile, Russia says Donald Trump's move is "the best contribution to the cause of peace".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A09fa0e7f-6f1e-4770-9096-c5228d00635f#post

OP posts:
Thread gallery
30
cardibach · 05/03/2025 12:48

To expand on the loan situation, about 35% of EU aid is in the form of loans, but they have a 10 year grace period and 35 year repayment, and the EU has recognised that it’s likely this will have to be renegotiated and a significant amount written off in the future. The most recent loans are to be paid off with the interest from seized Russian assets.

caringcarer · 05/03/2025 12:52

According to BBC website they report information from Kiel Institute it is.

AIBU to be utterly horrified that the US has cut off military aid to Ukraine?
cardibach · 05/03/2025 12:52

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/03/2025 12:47

If it turns out that Trump really has trashed the nation's "soft power" then it would turn out very badly, but while the current job's underway I'd say the jury's out on that however much some might wish it otherwise

As ever time will tell and if this all falls apart Trump will rightly get his share of the blame, but while many rant and rave on SM I'm not seeing the same level of anti-Americanism there's been for years from many world leaders, and that'll be a refreshing change for many

I’m still not sure what this job is. America has always called most of the shots. USAID helped keep lots of very useful governments (such as a Jordan) on side and doing stuff that helped the US. They won’t be doing that going forward and will be unlikely to trust the US again. Experts believe the cutting of funding worldwide through USAID will be very damaging to US influence.
You think world leaders aren’t more anti-America now? Canadian? EU? U.K.? Baltic states? They’ve been badly let down or actually threatened. I don’t think there was significant anti Americanism before - I’m not aware of it - but there is now.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/03/2025 12:59

caringcarer · 05/03/2025 12:43

The US has mostly grants that do not have to be repaid whereas the EU has given mostly loans they expect to be repaid.

While broadly true the devil's in the detail, caringcarer, and I don't really imagine the EU believes it has a hope in hell of ever seeing the money again, but you'll get predictable pushback for pointing out that much of the US money was indeed grants

Interesting, too, that while there's a popular narrative that the US has effectively spent the "hardware money" within its own borders, nothing's been said about the many questions around the disappearance of said hardware once in Ukrainian hands (see link at 12:16)

Too inconvenient perhaps?

DuncinToffee · 05/03/2025 13:02

caringcarer · 05/03/2025 12:52

According to BBC website they report information from Kiel Institute it is.

That is financial aid only

This one is all aid

AIBU to be utterly horrified that the US has cut off military aid to Ukraine?
PandaTime · 05/03/2025 13:06

Elon put on a suit 😂

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/03/2025 13:07

I’m still not sure what this job is

I thought I'd answered that, @Cardibach, but apologies if I put it badly.
For me at least "the job" involves securing a peace via arrangements that the various parties can broadly live with - something which others have strived for but haven't yet managed

And yes, some world leaders may well insist that they've been "let down", not unlike a teenager who's been told they can't borrow the car now, but I'm confident they'll change their tune if a peace can be sorted out and they're off the hook for the defence spending they should have increased decades ago

justasking111 · 05/03/2025 13:09

Trump only has to please Americans, not the world. Which he appears to be doing at the moment. Many Americans don't travel abroad so we're not high on their list of priorities. The dollar in their wallet, the price of eggs, meat are grabbing their attention just now.

BIossomtoes · 05/03/2025 13:10

caringcarer · 05/03/2025 12:43

The US has mostly grants that do not have to be repaid whereas the EU has given mostly loans they expect to be repaid.

Why is Trump talking about recompense via Ukraine’s minerals then?

CleansUpButWouldPreferNotTo · 05/03/2025 13:12

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/03/2025 12:59

While broadly true the devil's in the detail, caringcarer, and I don't really imagine the EU believes it has a hope in hell of ever seeing the money again, but you'll get predictable pushback for pointing out that much of the US money was indeed grants

Interesting, too, that while there's a popular narrative that the US has effectively spent the "hardware money" within its own borders, nothing's been said about the many questions around the disappearance of said hardware once in Ukrainian hands (see link at 12:16)

Too inconvenient perhaps?

Puzzledandpissedoff

Interesting, too, that while there's a popular narrative that the US has effectively spent the "hardware money" within its own borders, nothing's been said about the many questions around the disappearance of said hardware once in Ukrainian hands (see link at 12:16)

Here's that link at 12:16 and what it says:

The invasion of Ukraine has led to a larger quantity of weapons entering Europe, and thus a greater possibility for weapons to go missing. Since 2022, there have been sporadic reports of small and large arms being stolen in Ukraine. In early 2022, a Russian-led criminal organization operating in Ukraine reportedly stole at least one grenade launcher, a machine gun, and over 1,000 rounds of ammunition to sabotage and destabilize Ukraine’s efforts to secure the region. Although it is difficult to confirm when and where weapons are stolen, the sheer scale of weapon transfers means that it is highly likely that some weapons will go missing over the course of the conflict.

However, when examining the extent to which illicit weapons are being used or sold in Ukraine, it is important to acknowledge the massive amount of Russian disinformation about these weapons. Russia has been working within the United Nations to spread disinformation about the state of weapons being sold to Ukraine by the United States and other Western nations. Reports about Finnish gangsters, French rioters, Nigerian fighters, and Mexican cartels gaining weapons—like rifles and grenade launchers—from Ukraine have all been debunked as Russian propaganda attempting to sway the United States and NATO allies to decrease arms transfers. Russia is actively trying to disincentivize US support for Kyiv, which necessitates caution when discussing illicit weapons trading in Europe.

https://hir.harvard.edu/facts-or-false-alarms-the-state-of-illicit-arms-in-ukraine/

Monitoring illicit arms flows from the conflict in Ukraine.

The huge influx of weapons into Ukraine since the start of the Russian invasion in February 2022 has raised fears of potential arms trafficking. As yet, there is little sign of such activity, with many reported instances either the result of Russian di...

https://riskbulletins.globalinitiative.net/ukr-obs-001/01-monitoring-illicit-arms-flows-from-the-conflict-in-ukraine.html?ref=hir.harvard.edu

BIossomtoes · 05/03/2025 13:15

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/03/2025 13:07

I’m still not sure what this job is

I thought I'd answered that, @Cardibach, but apologies if I put it badly.
For me at least "the job" involves securing a peace via arrangements that the various parties can broadly live with - something which others have strived for but haven't yet managed

And yes, some world leaders may well insist that they've been "let down", not unlike a teenager who's been told they can't borrow the car now, but I'm confident they'll change their tune if a peace can be sorted out and they're off the hook for the defence spending they should have increased decades ago

Europe will never be “off the hook” for increased defence spending now. The US is an unreliable ally and has proved it can’t be depended upon. It’s very clear that Europe must be as self reliant as possible. The special relationship with the UK has gone.

Wildflowers99 · 05/03/2025 13:17

BIossomtoes · 05/03/2025 13:15

Europe will never be “off the hook” for increased defence spending now. The US is an unreliable ally and has proved it can’t be depended upon. It’s very clear that Europe must be as self reliant as possible. The special relationship with the UK has gone.

Agree completely. Since when has Putin ever stopped? We have been caught with our pants down and will need to be ever ready after this. We can no longer skimp on it and presume the next 10 years will be peaceful.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/03/2025 13:22

Having read it in full, as opposed to selected passages, I know what the report says CleansUpButWouldPreferNotTo ... which is why In referred to "questions" being raised rather than the full outcome being known

And I agree about the "special relationship" certainly being damaged if not actually over, @Blossomtoes, but then I've never really believed it counted for much at the highest levels beyond our usefulness as a launch pad and the UK doing a "pick me" dance in the hope America would go on paying

user9876543211 · 05/03/2025 13:26

Stirabout · 04/03/2025 20:54

The only thing that’s upsetting was your rude
sigh
remark

Its unnecessary.
Doesn't feel nice does it.
Better to post a polite response. It’s more effective

Edited

@Stirabout

The sigh was because I've been accused of 'sneering inaccurately', blaming the retirees and being 'desperate to blame the English, all alongside liberal use of stupid passive aggressive emojis. All of which could be construed as 'rude remarks'. When I literally said I didn't know it for a fact but had read it, then posted an apparently reputable analysis three times, so without reading either of the first two (or the third for all I know) you were rude to me again.

It's unnecessary.
Doesn't feel nice does it...

BIossomtoes · 05/03/2025 13:27

Well it doesn’t count for anything now. Which is fortunate in some ways because we certainly won’t be supporting the US the next time it wages war as it has so frequently in the last 30 years. Where will we be when Trump decides to take Greenland by force, I wonder?

caringcarer · 05/03/2025 13:47

DuncinToffee · 05/03/2025 13:02

That is financial aid only

This one is all aid

Indeed but the EU didn't gift the money as a grant, it just loaned Ukraine money. At some point they'll want it back.

randomchap · 05/03/2025 13:56

I bet it's by Hugo Boss

Sorry that was meant to quote someone mentioning Musks suit

LastRoIo · 05/03/2025 14:00

I need to read up on the specifics of this (super busy at work atm) but seems Trump is trying to portray Zelensky as uncooperative in his bids to negotiate peace. However, I'm assuming this 'truce' doesn't constitute Russia pulling all their troops out and returning all Ukrainian assets?

Careertimenow · 05/03/2025 14:07

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/03/2025 12:59

While broadly true the devil's in the detail, caringcarer, and I don't really imagine the EU believes it has a hope in hell of ever seeing the money again, but you'll get predictable pushback for pointing out that much of the US money was indeed grants

Interesting, too, that while there's a popular narrative that the US has effectively spent the "hardware money" within its own borders, nothing's been said about the many questions around the disappearance of said hardware once in Ukrainian hands (see link at 12:16)

Too inconvenient perhaps?

👀

Careertimenow · 05/03/2025 14:10

LastRoIo · 05/03/2025 14:00

I need to read up on the specifics of this (super busy at work atm) but seems Trump is trying to portray Zelensky as uncooperative in his bids to negotiate peace. However, I'm assuming this 'truce' doesn't constitute Russia pulling all their troops out and returning all Ukrainian assets?

All you need to have in your mind is money and the hand outs that Putin will get. American troops will start digging for minerals and low and behold no more Putin. Money talks, bullshit walks.

Grammarnut · 05/03/2025 14:11

LifeExperience · 05/03/2025 02:16

The US only gives 5 Eyes a small portion of the intelligence we collect. In fact "noforn," which means "not releasable to any foreign nationals" is the most common US intelligence designation.

CF aren't they? And they only have a nuclear deterrant because of France, Canada and the UK. Need putting back in their box (with the tea).

Careertimenow · 05/03/2025 14:12

caringcarer · 05/03/2025 13:47

Indeed but the EU didn't gift the money as a grant, it just loaned Ukraine money. At some point they'll want it back.

They will either get the money from Ukraine or Putin's assets?

Psychostates · 05/03/2025 14:35

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/03/2025 10:52

Excellent post, JadededViewer, and so much more worthwhile than the competition for how many insulting adjectives can be found for Trump

As I've said so often we don't have to like the man and most of us don't, but he's not there to be liked - he's there to get a job done, even for those who simply can't get over the fact he was elected

Well it is a job he isn't capable of doing correctly, so yes he's fair game. When he's risking the lives of millions, we can call him what ever expletive we want to.

Psychostates · 05/03/2025 14:38

BIossomtoes · 05/03/2025 13:27

Well it doesn’t count for anything now. Which is fortunate in some ways because we certainly won’t be supporting the US the next time it wages war as it has so frequently in the last 30 years. Where will we be when Trump decides to take Greenland by force, I wonder?

Yes I'm sure they'll be more than capable of going it alone, and won't need us in the future. Vance has made this crystal clear.

C152 · 05/03/2025 14:43

caringcarer · 05/03/2025 12:06

The US has paid more than all other countries put together.

No, they haven't. Collectively, Europe has provided more support to Ukraine than the US.

Swipe left for the next trending thread