AIBU to be utterly horrified that the US has cut off military aid to Ukraine?

[Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr]

I was hoping that it was mostly just bluster from Trump. But we've woken up to the news that he has actually done it. He's literally swapped sides in the war and is now standing with the aggressor, Russia, and abandoning the victim, Ukraine.

At least some Americans are speaking out against the decision:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A09fa0e7f-6f1e-4770-9096-c5228d00635f#post

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A8510a9e0-ea40-4895-835d-bb747d6b0339#post

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c981p3dxnent?post=asset%3A43d2db68-32ae-47f3-a550-8a5bd491beb9#post

I fully agree with you that he should never have been in office, @Petuniaspetal, but it makes no difference whether we "accept it" or not - ditto the complete mess the Democrats made with their election choices and the rest

Whether we like it or not he's there for now and has a job which needs to be done, and personally I believe we'll have to wait a while to see if his approach will be the most effective one in the end

Had to smile about the Nobel suggestion though. Never mind an actual award - even a nomination would drive some absolutely INSANE and the competition to throw the best insult would be something to behold

In fairness, Kamala was already under the bus after her own failed campaign in 2020, but having left it too late to get rid of Biden they had no choice but to go with her and pretend she was somehow rather marvellous, because the rules wouldn't allow the campaign $$$$ to be spent on anyone else

I agree it's no way to treat their supporters, but unfortunately the Democrats are another group who convinced themselves Trump would never be elected. so are left licking their wounds

Blessings to the son of Israel Volodymyr Zelenskyy and his wonderful Israeli parents
Oleksandr and Rymma 🇺🇦🇮🇱🥰💪

Mazel tov to all who support Ukraine 🇺🇦 we are all with you 🇮🇱😍

itsjustbiology · Yesterday 12:15

Aid has temporarily been suspended. This is to force the hand of the little man running round the world with his hands out in his action man clothes demanding every other country finance his every whim whilst billions of pounds has gone "missing".

Debunking the 'missing billions:

"no money is missing,” Mark Cancian, a senior adviser with the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a retired Marine colonel wrote:

“The funds went (mostly) to activities that arose because of the war, and all are accounted for. Some paid for sending equipment and funds directly to Ukraine. A large part went to activities that arose because of the war but were not spent in Ukraine,” he said.
“Only part of the aid goes through Ukrainian control,” Cancian explained. “A large part pays for activities as a result of the war but not to Ukraine directly. These include the United States training of Ukrainian forces, global humanitarian assistance, additional costs of U.S. surge forces in Europe, and intelligence support for both NATO and Ukraine.”
Cancian also noted that about 90% of Ukraine military aid is spent in the U.S.
As Kellogg explained, when the U.S. sends Ukraine military equipment from its stockpiles, the U.S. government pays to “backfill” or replace that equipment so “that’s why we have to buy it here in the United States.”
Indeed, Cancian wrote, “most of the money is not delivered directly to Ukraine but handled by trusted agencies, mostly the U.S. military, the Department of State/USAID, and the World Bank. The image of pallets of cash being sent to Ukraine is inaccurate.”

https://www.factcheck.org/2025/02/trumps-false-and-misleading-ukraine-claims/

The US has paid more than all other countries put together.

Many European countries like Italy pay virtually nothing of their GDP. Germany too refuses to pay it's share. I can't blame the US for getting fed up of subsardising so many European countries. Some European countries like Poland pay their share. If as LL the countries paid their way there wouldn't be a problem. Remember belonging to NATO is voluntary not mandatory. What would the rest of NATO countries do if the US pulled out because too many countries are taking the piss?

But the UK ended the war pretty much bankrupt.

I guess he could threaten not to share US intelligence in the first place, but I’m not sure how he would enforce it as it would be very tricky to prove the info came only from the US.

What would the rest of NATO countries do if the US pulled out because too many countries are taking the piss?

Given that Trump's made clear he's not exactly a fan of NATO, they may find out one day ...

"no money is missing,” Mark Cancian, a senior adviser with the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a retired Marine colonel wrote

Edited to add that this is true, but can also depepnd on what "money" is perceived to mean
If it includes the arms that the money was spent to provide then there are a number of questions there too:

https://hir.harvard.edu/facts-or-false-alarms-the-state-of-illicit-arms-in-ukraine/

What job is he getting done? He wrecked America’s soft power over USAID, is trashing alliances globally, and the economy has just taken a massive hit. I think most of us can see the job he’s trying to do is to enrich himself and his mates whilst weakening America (and by extension it’s allies) for the benefit of, presumably, Putin. Hence the insulting adjectives. It’s not (all) because he’s a repulsive excuse for a human being.

But he's putting tariffs on countries that are friendly to the US. The global situation is changing, China is becoming as powerful as the US, and they are using their wealth to spread their influence around the world. Europe is losing its global importance.

It makes no sense to me for the US to deliberately damage the economies of their allies, and certainly not right now. I think it's a huge mistake.

Again, what job do you imagine he’s ’getting done’?

No it hasn’t. Europe has paid more than the US. And a lot of the US count is weapons they were decommissioning - not only is there no cost to purchase them, but it actually saves money on the decommissioning process. If you work all that out, the US have paid less than even the more accurate figures say.

Give me time to answer, Cardibach!!

Along with enriching himself (which I agree about since they all do it) I'd say the actual job's ongoing but that the main message he's sending is that the US get to call the shots

I realise that's not a popular concept to many, especially on MN which is notoriously anti-American, but if he can somehow drag this to conclusion which all parties can broadly live with, I'd personally say that's a plus - especially when others have tried for years and got nowhere

'factcheck.org' ? They sound authoritative. Fearlessly seeking out the truth, a step up from even the BBC 🤔

Call the shots by trashing its soft power and alienating its allies? How’s that going to work?

Do tell, which sources do you trust?

caringcarer · Today 12:06

The US has paid more than all other countries put together.

Reuters states:

OVERALL AID
Europe has been the biggest provider of aid to Ukraine, allocating 132 billion euros (138.75 billion) of financial, military and humanitarian assistance since January 2022, just before Russia's invasion, while the United States has provided 114 billion euros in total, according to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy

www.reuters.com/world/how-much-aid-have-ukraines-western-allies-provided-2025-03-04/

The US has mostly grants that do not have to be repaid whereas the EU has given mostly loans they expect to be repaid.

They are pretty sound actually. Here’s their background/mission/funding https://www.factcheck.org/spindetectors/about/
And this is their reliability and bias scores - pretty good reliability and a bias just slightly to the left (-1.76 on a -42 to +42 scale where minus indicates left leaning https://adfontesmedia.com/factcheck-org-bias-and-reliability/

No, that’s not true either.

If you don't like factcheck.org, will you accept the US State Department or Reuters?

Yes there are lots of figures swirling around. But the common consensus is that a great part of the US aid to Ukraine has been spent inside the US paying its industries who manufacture military hardware.

If it turns out that Trump really has trashed the nation's "soft power" then it would turn out very badly, but while the current job's underway I'd say the jury's out on that however much some might wish it otherwise

As ever time will tell and if this all falls apart Trump will rightly get his share of the blame, but while many rant and rave on SM I'm not seeing the same level of anti-Americanism there's been for years from many world leaders, and that'll be a refreshing change for many

Take off your maga hat, let some oxygen get to your brain cells, the clanking sound is your brain starting to work.

I suspect though, that even in the face of numerous sources contesting your facts, you won't be persuaded because that's what you want to believe.

Ps Trump lies....alot.

To date, we have provided $66.5 billion in military assistance since Russia launched its premeditated, unprovoked, and brutal full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, and approximately $69.2 billion in military assistance since Russia's initial invasion of Ukraine in 2014. We have now used the emergency Presidential Drawdown Authority on 55 occasions since August 2021 to provide Ukraine military assistance totaling approximately $31.7 billion from DoD stockpiles.

https://www.state.gov/bureau-of-political-military-affairs/releases/2025/01/u-s-security-cooperation-with-ukraine