To think Britain should have nothing to do with this war

[Foodtimeisit]

After yesterday's news, Britain shouldn't be the one funding war as USA has said they are out now. There's no chance Britain can fight this war alone with Ukraine against Russia.
Since this war started, our life has only become miserable with CoL increase.
AIBU to think we shouldn't have anything to do this war and we should fix our own problems first before giving away our tax money?

Huh?
The United States has the largest external debt in the world. The total amount of U.S. Treasury securities held by foreign entities in December 2021 was $7.7 trillion, up from $7.1 trillion in December 2020.Total US federal government debt breached the $30 trillion mark for the first time in history in February 2022.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_of_the_United_States

And the US has voted time and time against Universal healthcare so don't blame that on Europe. Their citizens rightly or wrongly don't want to pay for it.

Reform is currently topping the UK polls. They will gain popularity with or without Russia’s (apparent) backing

The UK has too many fools then. Farage has spent more time sucking up to Trump than he has in Parliament and in his constituency. Does anybody seriously think Farage cares two figs about Clacton-on-Sea and imagine he has done anything to improve the lives of people there? Farage was aiming for a job in Trumps administration and then Musk burned his butt. Farage is on record as admiring Putin for gawds sake, not to mention their role in inciting street riots and discontent.

Best for me to take a step back and bow out I think.

As I said before, MNHQ can attest I am not a "bot", AI or any other such thing.

Very clear that the very people lambasting Trump/JDV for their position and being loud etc, are doing the very same thing here on this discussion because other people have a different view to theirs.

Pot, meet kettle.

Yet none of you Zelensky supporters will put any of your loved ones on the front line. Pure keyboard warriors only.

But don't you see that the fate of the British people is unavoidably linked to what happens to Ukraine?

If this was true we would have helped them in 2014 when Crimea was annexed.

Well said blossom

The trouble is, OP, that Russia will not stop at Ukraine.

Russia justifies what it is doing by saying that Ukraine was historically part of Russia.

On this basis Russia may also help itself to Latvia, Estonian, Lithuania, Finland and parts of Poland, all of which are in the EU and were once part of the Russian Empire and/or Soviet Union.

Even Alaska might be next.

Trump has shown he’s only up for whatever the USA can get out of it and that he isn’t interested in defending Europe.

He’s even displayed Russia-like tendencies in saying he wants to grab Greenland and Canada.

Remember, even in WW1 and WW2 they only got involved (and thank goodness they did) when American interests themselves were threatened, not out of some benevolent desire to protect Europe from Hitler.

What we need to do is draw our true friends closer (the EU, Australia, Canada, New Zealand) and, regrettable though it is, up
our defence spending.

We can’t send troops to Ukraine ourselves because that really would cause WW3 but we need to give them the tools to finish the war because the USA can’t be relied on now, sadly.

Nonsense. The US government spends far, far more than the U.K. government on healthcare, both in $ per person and as a % of GDP. Once you add in the costs shouldered by citizens and not covered by the government, the US system costs well over double what ours does per capita.

They haven’t prioritised spending money on defence over spending it on healthcare. They’ve chosen to spend huge amounts on healthcare in an incredibly inefficient way.

You prefer Russian style freedom of speech?

We should have.

No, I do not understand your weird reasoning at all.
Were you trying to say that Ukrainians are less worthy because they are not members of UE?
If so, the joke is on you- neither is UK.
Personally, I think that in your narrow minded head you misunderstood my post as to you, Europe means EU+UK. Now you are just trying to back pedal on that.

Well, I would not blame Ukrainians if they did not help you as a person, but I have a trust that they would stand up for other nations (including UK which is not in EU) if the roles were reversed.

I wonder if I could freely speak my mind in say, Ukraine if I declined to be a conscript for Zelenskys war?

Do you think our soldiers fighting in WW1 and WW2 were all volunteers?

I said universal healthcare. Read my response in the context of my response to OP's post.

@HelplessSoul I agree the irony about the sheer bot madness on here v jd vance free speech!

Do we share values with Ukraine then? Aren't they typically very conservative, homophobic, xenophobic, religious? Not sure I share their values.

I haven't called you a bot nor have I tried to silence you. I have just asked for sources to yous ascerstion Ukraine wouldn't help the UK. If you put force an assumption you usually have sources to provide a background. At least that's what I'll do.

You said people on this thread can't be Russian bots but there has been clear misinformation. I just asked your position onthis no reason to flounce.
Running from an argument just because people don't agree with you isn't any better than what you have accused other posters of.

And unless somebody has actually physically yelled at or cut another poster of on this thread, no nobody is like Vance and Trump. That is just a fact.

Farage has no stamina. How many political parties has he founded and got tired of?

That's about 4 days of spending on the NHS. Your children are not going to be paying for it for many years. Fact check your statements.

Sure. The current US government is so pro free speech that it's banned the Associated Press and Reuters from the White House press conferences.

So, anyone shouldn't be able to discuss their point of view if it's different to you? I think US needs to liberate UK first and get us our freedom of speech

Its clear from this that the UK allows people to be terminally thick as well as giving them the right to free speech

But the US does not want Universal healthcare. That's just another way of thinking nothing to do with defense spending or Europe.

Stereotype.

Ukraine is pluralistic regarding religion.
They have both Catholics and Orthodox. Zelenskyy is Jewish so to accuse him of being a Nazi as the Russians have done is doubly offensive.

Ukraine has democratic elections and freedom of speech.

Ukraine has universal healthcare and does not have the death penalty (and hasn’t for about 30 years).

America is a country that has freedom
of speech in the extreme but also has no universal healthcare and in some
states the criminal justice system still gasses, electrocutes, shoots or poisons their prisoners. They also lock up kids for life in prison.

In many ways we have more in common with modern Ukraine than the modern USA.

That still doesn’t make sense because they spend a bigger proportion of their GDP on government-funded healthcare programs than we do. The money that they have spent on defence has not come from spending less on healthcare than Europe.

The OP supports appeasement to fascists.

That didn't go well before WWII and it won't go well now.

If you give in to authoritarians like Putin they will only get worse. The whole of eastern Europe is at risk. We cannot let Russia invade the Baltic states, the rest of Ukraine, even Poland.

We are involved already because we share a continent and we share a vision of democracy.

I am American. Where do you expect to hear these Americans shouting from? Republicans and billionaires now control the entire government and basically all major US news outlets. Or do you mean the Americans of Mumsnet should come here and complain?

Everyone I personally know who isn't a Trumper is being vocal, but we don't exactly have great opportunities to share our views.

Also, Trump people are very frightening and their leader has made it clear that he will condone crushing any dissenters, so it's quite terrifying. My little brother is now unwilling to talk politics on WhatsApp due to Meta's alignment. It's quickly becoming a fascist state.