To think Trump is right

[Donotpanicoknowpanic]

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument

I can't help think Trump was right and made good points

Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month

Trump wants it to stop

There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war

They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield

Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like

Ukraine has to be realistic

If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal

Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that

The European's want American troops and for good reason

But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations

And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

Zelensky is in no position to be rude when he goes cap in hand for money to the US for a war that is going nowhere. I believe in realpolitik, believing in political practicalities not dogma and certainly not the ill informed hysteria displayed by so many here.
how would you feel if your son was fighting a war that has no end? that your country has been decimated, families broken apart. Children growing up in a foreign country?
Ukraine is not going to win unless Europe and the US declare an all out war on Russia and that is not going to happen. Trump is offering a way out for Ukraine that will benefit the whole country, Zelensky blew it by being a prima donna.
I suggest that you don't let your dislike of Trump become all out derangement and you exercise a little judicious common sense.
Look at the whole press conference, see how badly behaved Zelensky was. I doubt that you will, it might disturb your prejudices.

@rainingsnoring agree

There was a reason I said that. It wasn't just for fun.
Its appeasment (for now) because we have no choice. Europe and Britain have not invested enough in defence

I don't live in the UK.

You're another little Britainer who assumes that everyone on mumsnet lives in the UK.

We don't. This is a worldwide forum.

They have indeed embarrassed themselves with the ground incursion and in a boots on the ground perspective Russia aren't exactly a threat and would not have the capability to attempt to stage a ground incursion on any NATO country.

However, most posters are vastly naive to the threat Russia pose with their air capability.... a capability they haven't fully used in this conflict... but have threatened.

There's some good images through Google that show the range rings of the SA-21 when they deployed it to Syria.
Now pretty much copy and paste that over mainland Russia.
Russia have the capability to pretty much restrict and deny NATO airspace and NATO air power purely by their IADs alone.. integrated air defence systems...
And with Biden's deal with Turkey, you can forget about NATO aircraft (fighter. Transport, ISR) even operating. Take out the fighter and ISR capability and we are sitting ducks. Can't target anything without airborne ISR.

Again, as an example, we have no air defence. Russia have the capability to strike UK infrastructure (if they deemed it necessary) without even leaving Russian airspace.

I did make a post on a previous thread that details some of the Russian air to surface, surface to surface and surface to air capability. It is pretty eye opening.

Absolutely, well said

Yes but have any European leaders even sat down and tried to open discussions with Putin. To try to get him to stop.

Because it seems like they have done absolutely nothing

Wars are never the answer - have we not learnt that from the wars in the last century? All those who want to invade Russia should volunteer themselves if they want to. Haven't hundreds of thousands of Russian troops died in Ukraine - I would imagine that the vast majority would have preferred to have not fought. It is all so pointless. All the wealthy Russians have gone to other countries like Dubai to avoid conscription. It is always the poor and the vulnerable who are the victims. War creates hatred and leads to more war. It is neverending. It should always be the last resort after everything else has failed.

Hilarious
You'll be saying he should have worn a suit next

So you live abroad but want to play the part of the war monger and then throw insults around. Okay. Not a poster to be taken seriously clearly.

I agree with you to some extent, OP. And I never ever thought I’d write this, but I can see some of Trumps points.

Europe has been woeful at bringing this conflict to an end. And Europe’s investment in military defence has been shameful for far too long.

Russia will not stop. This war will not end through Russia giving up. Europe does not have the power to stop it and it has relied on the US for far too long. The US has no interest in a full scale war with Russia and they are the only ones with the power to do it. But it would be a war that lasts decades.

The only option at this point is negotiation. Which means that Zelensky needs to make concessions.

I also heard a very good point made by a US correspondent on Channel 4 news last night. He said that the American people don’t support continued financial support for this war. Trump needed this press conference as a large part of his winning ticket was a commitment to bring this war to an end. He needed the American people to see him being strong with Zelensky so that he could justify continued financial support whilst negotiations progress. Yes, it was clumsy, yes it was offensive, but it was for his supporters (the majority of Americans) not for anyone else.

I did watch it all

I still think it was a disgusting spectacle and America has the president and sidekick that they deserve

Ffs OP. Are you that naive you think Putin will stop at Ukraine?

Zelensky was argumentative and ungrateful. I also find his lack of wearing a suit disrespectful, fair enough his attire is fine in a war zone but he is in the White House. The war needs to end, they have tried their best to beat Russia with 100’s of billions £ of donated weapons and it’s a stalemate. How many of these posters would be happy for their sons to die on the battlefield.

This has been done before. Yes they have. Look it up your self

'Zelensky is in no position to be rude when he goes cap in hand for money to the US for a war that is going nowhere.'

Exactly. That is what I said above. Zelensky used very poor tactics to negotiate. His country has received many, many billions from the US, UK and Europe, the majority of which will never be paid back. He needs to be humble, particularly when negotiating with someone like Trump. Surely that's obvious?!

I shouldn't be taken seriously because I don't live in the UK.?? Seriously?

Wow! Are you racist.

The UK is not the centre of the universe.

I'm not "living abroad" to myself.

YOU live abroad to me.

How is it over there living abroad in the UK?

I agree people did not learn the main message- that wasn't us though, it was Germany.

Elon doesn't wear a suit

Neither did Churchill in similar circumstances

Please settle on a figure. I have heard from c120b to 360b. Hilarious

The vast majority of Russians did choose to go to another country and murder, rape and destroy.

They're well paid to do it

he should of

@ZooAccountant
Like we appeased Stalin? USSR played huge role in defeating Hitler, but Eastern/Central Europeans paid terrible price for that. Million of people killed by communist regime, thousands and thousands imprisoned. Millions of people living in totalitarian regime for decades.
My own grandfather, who was a war hero, died in poverty in Scotland because he would have been executed if he had returned home. Last time my mother saw her father, was in summer 1939, before the war broke out.She was 10. She grew up during WWII and Stalin era and lived for over 40 in a communist country.

So the lesson we should have learned from history is that we should not be appeasing dictators.

The moment putin invaded I asked the view of someone I had the privilege of briefly knowing who was very experienced and very wise; I won’t say how as that would be a breach but I trust that persons credentials implicitly.

They said putin looked likely to have steroid induced psychosis.

The guys a loose cannon. Zelensky is right that a cease fire is not something to be trusted so whilst that is the best he can aim for; it’s not right for America to be asked them to sell their mineral rights in exchange for support. That’s extortion and frankly it’s disgusting behaviour.

@BusyExpert I don't think he was rude, he's fighting for his country and people are referring to his clothes. It's unbelievable.

However he didn't seem to change his approach for his audience and that was his error, unlike starmer etc