To think Trump is right

[Donotpanicoknowpanic]

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument

I can't help think Trump was right and made good points

Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month

Trump wants it to stop

There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war

They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield

Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like

Ukraine has to be realistic

If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal

Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that

The European's want American troops and for good reason

But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations

And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

I veer from disbelief that there appear to be (and the crucial word is 'appear'; I don't think reality reveals the same) so many people with so little understanding of, frankly, anything; to reading or hearing something that does make me optimistic. It's important to constantly correct an incorrect vocal minority with facts though, else we risk their voice seeming more representative than it is, and risk those who read anything online as fact being easily corrupted.

Other European states have been debating for ages on how to 'manage' or deal with another Trump administration and, generally, avoid publicly taking him down a few pegs on his uneblievable actions/statements, instead preferring to deal with the wider administration, behind closed doors. I think they'll continue to do this, whilst preparing (at greater pace than usual) for an eventual wider war with Russia. And I do think they'll step up support for Ukraine.

This pretty much sums up a big issue.

Putin has already threatened an escalated response if Starmer and the US (previously Biden) continued to allow Ukraine to use British and US missiles to target infrastructure in mainland Russia.

This has gone past the conflict on the FLOT/FLET. That is a stalemate. It is morphing into a war of attrition and proxy war against Russia.

One thing our media or people don't understand is although Russia don't have the capability from a ground perspective. Their air defence and air power is second to none. They pose a massive threat through air to surface, surface to surface and surface to air missiles. The ranges of the systems and what they can target without having to stretch is a real danger.

The UK would be defenceless.

If anyone takes the time to read, to stand chance of winning a war, you need power and need air superiority and then air supremacy after that... something that neither side currently have but Russia could take it in a moment.
If Russia escalate this with Nato counties, then straight away they have the power of airspace denial... which would shut off NATO air power.

Another thing the left media omitted and left out. Something that will have a deciding point for Trump. Biden and his incompetence allowed Turkey back into the F-35 program even after they have acquired Russian SA-21 SAMs.
This puts the US, UK and NATO at risk of Russia gaining the information needed for their mainland SA-21s to now target F-35s.
Now the big selling point of the F-35 was it being stealth and having the capability to operate to some sort of safety in missile engagement zones of modern SAM systems such as the SA-21.
Biden's move risks leaving the US, UK and NATO with zero 5th generation aircraft that could operate in range of the SA-21 and thus gifting Russia the opportunity to gain air superiority and then air supremacy after that if they decide to escalate.

I think a lot of people need to take a step back from their hatred of Trump and look at some of the issues posed militarily... even if Trump is not good at getting that point across.

Wishful thinking.

Its appeasment (for now) because we have no choice. Europe and Britain have not invested enough in defence.

This is a problem common amongst people who have no knowledge or understanding of history. They assume that this is about a war in a faraway country and that we can choose not to get involved.

Nor did we in the 1930s. That's my point.

Well said!

What the fuck was trump thinking.

Why be so aggressive to zelensky in front of the world's media.

It's going to make everyone more worried. It's going to make everything worse.

Maybe you haven't read the full thread.

Anyone who wants Europe involved in this war has to take on the very very real possibility, it will involve conscription.
Lots of posters support Europe fighting with Ukraine and, as it will involve conscription at some point, it follows that they support that too.

This is a war that will be fought with boots on the ground, as the PM said. Everyone happy until those boots are on the boots of their son. Many say, or imply, that the sacrifice will be worth it.

Lots of people said "don't be daft" to those who warned conscription was coming in WW2.

Still, it's nice to have the moral superiority of supporting a war one thinks is right, until the call up papers fall on the hall mat. I admire those to whom it will genuinely make no difference-and maybe that will be the majority.

I won't be in it though, although support or not, there will be nothing we can do about it.

For now. He paused for a while after taking Georgia. Give him a few years after he’s taken Ukraine. He will regroup. I am sure his mates from China, N Korea and other regimes will help out. Probably Donald will do as well.

Everyone's afraid to stand up to russia.

Exactly and who helped us win WW2.

Did anyone say they ‘want to be involved in a war’? Or are we facing the harsh reality of the fact there won’t be a choice if we continue to appease Putin until he takes a swipe at a NATO country? I despair. This is NOT a choice between ‘war’ and ‘no war’

So your plan is?

Putin will take Ukraine.

Russia/US will insist on an election before any 'peace deal' - amazingly a Pro Putin stooge will be elected and voila! Ukraine is brought back under Russian control.

The rest of the old USSR find themselves either capitulating or fighting.

No support from the US and Putin rolls on further in to Europe. Next stop Poland. And on.

I cant not imagine for one second this brings any security to the UK.

Some poster on here wrote that russia don't want a world war.

I think that russia do want a world war.

I was talking to some Russian people and they said that putin wants to take over the whole world, or at the very least, a large chunk of the world

True, it's a case of a war when we are ready or a war we aren't

Russia and the USA. Two of the biggest most powerful countries helped us to win world war 2.

Now alliances have shifted. If we enter world war three we won't have either russia or the USA on our side.

The world needs to intervene in this war now, otherwise it's going to be a total catastrophe.

I completely understand your point of view, @SilkSquare . Nobody wants a war. Nobody wants their kids or themselves sent to fight.
But the OP doesn't argument this. They just say that Putin should be allowed to take Ukraine, as if it will stop there. If it was that simple nobody would be discussing.
Pointing out this is not censorship

@Igotjelly

The threat triangle is important to consider here.

The intent wasn't there. The bumbling agents weren't targeting the UK or any UK government officials.

They targeted Russian nationals. The UK populace were just collateral.

It's no different to ourselves, NATO, US, FVEY community taking out what we assess as viable targets at large in a country that we don't consider a threat actor.

Which is why we have to apease Putin

As I say, there is nothing we little people can do.
Run away to Ireland? Pray? let my boys go to gaol rather than go?

The choices are limited, especially when, as in WW2, those who disn't go to war were treated with disgust, jailed and ostracised. In WW1, they gave them white feathers.

The majority want war and all that that involves, so what can those cowards-like me-do?

Maybe it's time to get out the flag, wave it enthusiastically and convince myself that if they die in some Ukranian or Russian hole, they will be heroes; dead heroes decorated with bits of ribbon and their name on a monument.

Vance was pissed because Zelensky wasn't kissing his arse.
Trump was pissed because Zelensky wasn't sucking his cock.
Both of them clearly adore Putin and rely on Putins disinformation videos for their views.
Both Trump and Vance were rude and degrading towards a fellow leader.
Neither Trump or Vance have any diplomatic skill, they are stupid bullies who are used to people doing whatever they are told. Zelensky correcting lies is not rude.

It's simple- Putin invaded a sovereign country.
Putin needs to get the fuck out of it.
The rest of the world including America should be condemning it (and until stupidity and greed entered the white house America was).

Trump is a cowardly, ignorant buffoon who will go down in history as the worst president ever.

@BigDecisionWorthIt

Really interesting thank you.
I can't follow the plane issue can you break it down