Page 25 | To think Trump is right

Donotpanicoknowpanic · 2025-03-01T08:04:40+00:00

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument I can't help think Trump was right and made good points Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month Trump wants it to stop There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like Ukraine has to be realistic If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that The European's want American troops and for good reason But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

Notonthestairs · 01/03/2025 12:14

So what is the solution?

Putin wont stop at Ukraine. Next time he will have rearmed with help from the US.

Where does this end?

MarvellousMarch · 01/03/2025 12:14

@Alexandra2001 no, no and no.

What does capitulation look like to you? Do you think agreeing to annex crimea but leaving the rest of Ukraine is capitulation?

No I don't think putin wants to die in a nuke blast but he can smaller tactical nukes, he can use gases and all sorts like in Syria?

What the do we do the same inside Russia??
Gas Russia what then if he ups the stakes?
Or stop it and get the USA in via a side door

I can't speak for others but I agree Russia was the invader it's blood obvious, putin is a nightmare individual and trump is extremely difficult to deal with.

Bertaboo · 01/03/2025 12:14

No i don't think trump is right. I think it's disgusting to talk to the leader of a country that is invaded, like that. He's victim blaming zelensky.

I bet that Trump wouldn't have the balls to talk to Putin like that!

C0tt0nCandy · 01/03/2025 12:14

EasternStandard · 01/03/2025 12:12

@C0tt0nCandy you go first, how many dc would you put forward?

No I’d like to see your plan. Come on what is it?

Locutus2000 · 01/03/2025 12:15

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 01/03/2025 12:11

@BeckyAMumsnet, do you think perhaps the time has come for MNHQ to review its talk guidelines?

I understand your point that people should challenge posts with arguments rather than so-called troll hunting, but it isn't always possible to disprove the spurious claims that are often made on here because they're just made up nonsense. And in this day and age, when we know that hostile foreign states are actively seeking to influence the political debate in our own country by deliberately spreading disinformation via social media, I am not sure that it is helpful for MN to just carry on zapping posters who cast doubt on a poster's motivations. Isn't it better to at least raise awareness amongst all MNers of the possibility that hostile foreign actors may be at work, so that people can maintain that critical awareness?

If you are not willing to allow posters to call others out when they suspect that hostile foreign actors may be at play, can you outline exactly what steps MN has taken to guarantee that such actors cannot possibly be active on MN? Or do you not actually agree that we should be taking all possible steps to minimise the influence that hostile foreign states might have on political debate in the UK?

We have a curious situation on MN at present in which highly offensive content is frequently left to stand and deliberate disinformation is rampant, and yet posts which dare to suggest that posters may not be exactly what they are purporting to be get zapped because they are "against Talk Guidelines".

I would respectfully suggest that it is time for MN to tear up the old Talk Guidelines and draft some new ones that properly address the very real threats facing us in today's world.

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Shame on us for thinking cut and paste Kremlin propaganda might just be Kremlin propaganda.

We should be ashamed of our closed-mindedness and realise being anti-fascist is the true evil.

Igotjelly · 01/03/2025 12:15

BettyBooper · 01/03/2025 12:13

I don't think rolling over is a great option but Trump is not going to continue to bankroll it and shouting about it won't change his mind! He has massive support on this in the US.

So what's your alternative? What is your master plan?

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If you come over to the Ukraine threads we’ve been talking about this for years now.

Christmasmorale · 01/03/2025 12:16

Igotjelly · 01/03/2025 12:08

Free speech is not an absolute right, and neither it should be if it’s harmful to national security interests.

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So your opinion that there is a national security risk (expressed without actual inside knowledge to assess that risk) from people expressing differing views to yours means that those posters should be censored?

Now I don't support Putin or Trump but I do think censoring people from genuinely debating these issues and challenging the position that we are fed will be harmful in the longterm.

EasternStandard · 01/03/2025 12:16

@C0tt0nCandy I'm sure you would. You've boldly offered other people to fight for you.

I'm wondering why you're now avoiding stepping up yourself.

C0tt0nCandy · 01/03/2025 12:16

BettyBooper · 01/03/2025 12:13

I don't think rolling over is a great option but Trump is not going to continue to bankroll it and shouting about it won't change his mind! He has massive support on this in the US.

So what's your alternative? What is your master plan?

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Does he?I’m not seeing massive support. Quite the reverse all over SM.

Tvp123 · 01/03/2025 12:16

The war does need to end and it could happen very easily by Putin ending it. If Putin stops fighting the war ends, if Ukraine stop fighting Ukraine ends. Simple really. If Trump wants it to end he needs to get Putin to stop.

OneLemonDog · 01/03/2025 12:16

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 01/03/2025 12:11

@BeckyAMumsnet, do you think perhaps the time has come for MNHQ to review its talk guidelines?

I understand your point that people should challenge posts with arguments rather than so-called troll hunting, but it isn't always possible to disprove the spurious claims that are often made on here because they're just made up nonsense. And in this day and age, when we know that hostile foreign states are actively seeking to influence the political debate in our own country by deliberately spreading disinformation via social media, I am not sure that it is helpful for MN to just carry on zapping posters who cast doubt on a poster's motivations. Isn't it better to at least raise awareness amongst all MNers of the possibility that hostile foreign actors may be at work, so that people can maintain that critical awareness?

If you are not willing to allow posters to call others out when they suspect that hostile foreign actors may be at play, can you outline exactly what steps MN has taken to guarantee that such actors cannot possibly be active on MN? Or do you not actually agree that we should be taking all possible steps to minimise the influence that hostile foreign states might have on political debate in the UK?

We have a curious situation on MN at present in which highly offensive content is frequently left to stand and deliberate disinformation is rampant, and yet posts which dare to suggest that posters may not be exactly what they are purporting to be get zapped because they are "against Talk Guidelines".

I would respectfully suggest that it is time for MN to tear up the old Talk Guidelines and draft some new ones that properly address the very real threats facing us in today's world.

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Perfectly put.

MarvellousMarch · 01/03/2025 12:16

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

????

You call posters out via the report button as always. You don't do it endlessly and repetitively on threads where people have a different view point?

C0tt0nCandy · 01/03/2025 12:17

EasternStandard · 01/03/2025 12:16

@C0tt0nCandy I'm sure you would. You've boldly offered other people to fight for you.

I'm wondering why you're now avoiding stepping up yourself.

Come come, You clearly have a better alternative. What is it?

Bertaboo · 01/03/2025 12:17

I was talking to a Russian man recently. We are in the same club. We got onto the topic of the war.

I said to him "but what exactly does Putin want from Ukraine. Like , what will make Putin stop".

He said "nothing will make putin stop. Putin wants to take over the whole world. The only thing that will stop him is outside forces".

Mrsbloggz · 01/03/2025 12:17

Bertaboo · 01/03/2025 12:14

No i don't think trump is right. I think it's disgusting to talk to the leader of a country that is invaded, like that. He's victim blaming zelensky.

I bet that Trump wouldn't have the balls to talk to Putin like that!

Edited

When it comes to balls and the subject of Putin and trump, Putin's balls would be on trump's chin because trump would be felating him.

C152 · 01/03/2025 12:17

ZebedeeDougalFlorence · 01/03/2025 10:59

Personally, op, I think that you are alluding to the complexity of this situation, which I kind of agree with. I am hard pressed to understand how this war started and who was the "aggressor". Putin stated specific terms and Zelensky refused them and a war began. But did Putin's terms involve the opportunity to expand the Russian empire or were they a bid for security? I don't know.

You can tell from my post that I am not well enough informed on this subject by a long shot. However, Trump's display on that video in front of the whole world was appalling. We saw a glimpse of how he operates and it is shocking. He is ignorant and easily angered - not someone who should have custody of the codes for nuclear war. Where he is smart however is in aligning with Russia. We in Britain seem the weakest of all, cut off from the rest of Europe in so many ways which means we will eventually have to bow to whatever Trump needs us to be. I wonder if this was Farage's vision for Brexit all along?

Um, no. Putin broke international law by invading Ukraine in 2014. See link below for a very brief summary timeline.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9476/

Tvp123 · 01/03/2025 12:18

Donotpanicoknowpanic · 01/03/2025 09:02

Ukraine is in a bad position and ideally everyone would live in peace

But the answer to your question is yes

If it means I could bring my children up in a country that was not being ripped apart by war

If it meant not having to send my partner off to fight and never see him again

If it meant that I could live a life that I wanted to live them yes I would let the Americans mine the rare earth from the country

And who knows I could even get a job at the rare earth mines

Yes some of the wealth will go to America but some will stay in Ukraine

This money could be used to rebuild Ukraine

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If you could live the life you wanted to live. This push to the right will take away people's rights to live the life they want to live.

GameofPhones · 01/03/2025 12:18

BettyBooper · 01/03/2025 12:13

I don't think rolling over is a great option but Trump is not going to continue to bankroll it and shouting about it won't change his mind! He has massive support on this in the US.

So what's your alternative? What is your master plan?

Show quote history

Trump does not have massive support in the US

https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/51692-donald-trump-administration-policies-government-cuts-attitudes-other-countries-february-23-25-2025-economist-yougov-poll

Bertaboo · 01/03/2025 12:18

Other countries in Europe are not taking this war seriously enough.

They should be physically intervening in the war.

Why don't the other European countries send troops to try to defeat Russia?

They should have done this already.

Alexandra2001 · 01/03/2025 12:18

Mmm thats not how it works...

Men from Australia, Canada & the UK etc all volunteered to fight, pre WW2 men went to fight in Spain, no conscription in occupied France, yet 1000s fought and died to fight the Nazi's

Those RAF pilots? they all pretty much volunteered pre 1939.

My uncle did, he went against everything my Gran said to him...

Very strange that some people want Russia in all of Eastern Europe, maybe they don't care where he stops and have another country to go to.... i'm think those who can go back to Aus etc not that they are Russian.

Wildflowers99 · 01/03/2025 12:18

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 01/03/2025 12:11

@BeckyAMumsnet, do you think perhaps the time has come for MNHQ to review its talk guidelines?

I understand your point that people should challenge posts with arguments rather than so-called troll hunting, but it isn't always possible to disprove the spurious claims that are often made on here because they're just made up nonsense. And in this day and age, when we know that hostile foreign states are actively seeking to influence the political debate in our own country by deliberately spreading disinformation via social media, I am not sure that it is helpful for MN to just carry on zapping posters who cast doubt on a poster's motivations. Isn't it better to at least raise awareness amongst all MNers of the possibility that hostile foreign actors may be at work, so that people can maintain that critical awareness?

If you are not willing to allow posters to call others out when they suspect that hostile foreign actors may be at play, can you outline exactly what steps MN has taken to guarantee that such actors cannot possibly be active on MN? Or do you not actually agree that we should be taking all possible steps to minimise the influence that hostile foreign states might have on political debate in the UK?

We have a curious situation on MN at present in which highly offensive content is frequently left to stand and deliberate disinformation is rampant, and yet posts which dare to suggest that posters may not be exactly what they are purporting to be get zapped because they are "against Talk Guidelines".

I would respectfully suggest that it is time for MN to tear up the old Talk Guidelines and draft some new ones that properly address the very real threats facing us in today's world.

Show quote history

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

zendeveloper · 01/03/2025 12:18

Oh for fucks sake.

Is Zelensky a somewhat divisive figure amongst Ukrainians - yes. Mostly because cults of personality is not really the done thing. And we have seen him before 99% of MN knew who he was and what he does. Has he made mistakes when it comes to being prepared for a full scale invasion, yes he has.

Is he also universally supported by Ukrainians when it comes to his war effort - also yes. Even his political opponents, who have a good chance against him if the election happens, support him at the moment. Shocking, eh? Sometimes there are bigger things than infighting.

Piggywaspushed · 01/03/2025 12:19

MarvellousMarch · 01/03/2025 12:16

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves

????

You call posters out via the report button as always. You don't do it endlessly and repetitively on threads where people have a different view point?

Disinformation campaigns are not a 'different viewpoint'.

EasternStandard · 01/03/2025 12:20

@C0tt0nCandy nope you'll have to commit to fighting or your dc if you ask it of others online.

I know you want to divert but there's
no point in throwing around tough talk. You can do the sacrifice if keen.

akiwi · 01/03/2025 12:20

@SilkSquare

It's not a discussion about sending our kids to fight. Nobody wants that. But I doubt anyone wanted that in any war.
What we are discussing is how much we are going to accept so we can avoid sending our kids to be killed. And what actions now could stop that from happening.
Some people here seem to be defending doing nothing, keeping out of it. I don't think they really believe that this is going to keep their kids safe. It's just ensuring that either we'll live under an authoritarian regime, or we'll have a war later.
We've been calling the people that fought WWII "the greatest generation", because their sacrifices made possible for us to live in a free country.
But sure, it's an argument worth having if we would do what they did, or we would rather live under an authoritarian regime and avoid all that death. I am open to be persuaded either way