To think Trump is right

[Donotpanicoknowpanic]

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument

I can't help think Trump was right and made good points

Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month

Trump wants it to stop

There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war

They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield

Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like

Ukraine has to be realistic

If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal

Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that

The European's want American troops and for good reason

But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations

And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

Disgraceful attitude.

Dealing with Putin by blaming Ukraine you mean... dealing with Putin by capitulation...

Which is what some posters are doing/wanting.. its straight from the Kremlin playbook... MNHQ should be aware of this.

Nukes? ok i get that fear, so let Russia walk down Whitehall shall we? scrap our deterrent...
Or do you think Putin wants to burn in 1000'C heat along with the rest of Russia and indeed the world.

Where is your line in the sand?

This is the same kind argument that blames a woman when a man rapes her or beats her up. She should have anticipated it and has noone to blame but herself.

So you're advocating for censorship?

I’m coming to the conclusion you aren’t a bot, just a moron. You’ve pretty much point blank refused to explain how exactly you would deal with Putin. What exactly is your master plan for stopping him, or indeed do you think we should just roll over and learn Russian? Personally after the appalling war crimes that he has committed I would personally be willing to stand up and defend what I believe in. He has no morals at all.

Thank God for the 85% YABU vote!!!

And all the "Oh but the US have given 70 billion trillion times more £ than anyone else ..." thing ...

Do you really believe this was out of the goodness of their hearts and with the aim of securing real and lasting peace for the people of Ukraine?

Free speech is not an absolute right, and neither it should be if it’s harmful to national security interests.

Like ai say, we won't be here if it comes to that. So it won't be my boys. You can decimate another generation of working class boys with your own blood.

Rolling over and allowing Putin to take what he wants will not lead to peace. It will lead to massive global conflict as other dictators are emboldened to expand their sphere of influence. There is an axis of evil forming and we take our western freedoms and privileges for granted at our peril. If you support Trump's subservience to Putin you are supporting a very dark future for your children.

Geo politics is what it is. We know appeasement doesn't work, but to be fair to the British politicians in the 1930s they were rearming at the same time.

Russia ignored the last ceasefire and invaded Ukraine again. Russia has openly said it will then take Poland which is NATO territory and therefore spark a world war. So no, I don’t think Trump has a point.

Trump's actions in a few short weeks show he is moving away from the position of the US as leader of the free world (withdrawing from WHO, disparaging NATO, cosying up to Vlad). If other countries and alliances show they can act effectively without the US then the US loses influence. If other countries refuse to pay his high risk tariffs games the US economy will be wrecked. Trump seems to be coming at everything from a "what's in it for me?" viewpoint, which is short-sighted at best. Difficult to see how that will MAGA.

JD Vance and Trump got their heckles up just after Zelenskyy corrected Trump on when the war actually started and how Putin took the Crimea region without retribution. Trump was trying to make a political play by saying Biden and Obama didn’t engage in effective diplomacy but Zelenskyy cleverly pointed out there was a Trump presidency in the middle there too. Then they both proceeded to shout over him - great diplomacy America!

If you even remotely believe this fucking claptrap you are ignorant on an epic scale of history or geopolitics. It was actually watching America swap sides, destroy NATO and resection the world order. I have boys who are just inching into conscription age and if any of you do, you need a plan because this is going to go sideways. This is the lowest point in American Government ever and that's saying something given the astonishing blah that comes out of L'Orange's flaccid gob. It's actually dangerous, a nasty public bread and circuses kabuki for an audience of one who resides in the Kremlin. Seriously OP, look at the deal the rest of the world in general and the US in particular made with Ukraine when they disarmed their nuclear arsenal after the Soviet collapse. We made them a promise, they've fulfilled their part and we must fulfill ours.

Or Latgalia, or Anders Nielsen actually puts forward a very plausible scenario with Northern Finland too.

@BeckyAMumsnet, do you think perhaps the time has come for MNHQ to review its talk guidelines?

I understand your point that people should challenge posts with arguments rather than so-called troll hunting, but it isn't always possible to disprove the spurious claims that are often made on here because they're just made up nonsense. And in this day and age, when we know that hostile foreign states are actively seeking to influence the political debate in our own country by deliberately spreading disinformation via social media, I am not sure that it is helpful for MN to just carry on zapping posters who cast doubt on a poster's motivations. Isn't it better to at least raise awareness amongst all MNers of the possibility that hostile foreign actors may be at work, so that people can maintain that critical awareness?

If you are not willing to allow posters to call others out when they suspect that hostile foreign actors may be at play, can you outline exactly what steps MN has taken to guarantee that such actors cannot possibly be active on MN? Or do you not actually agree that we should be taking all possible steps to minimise the influence that hostile foreign states might have on political debate in the UK?

We have a curious situation on MN at present in which highly offensive content is frequently left to stand and deliberate disinformation is rampant, and yet posts which dare to suggest that posters may not be exactly what they are purporting to be get zapped because they are "against Talk Guidelines".

I would respectfully suggest that it is time for MN to tear up the old Talk Guidelines and draft some new ones that properly address the very real threats facing us in today's world.

One heartening thing to be taken from this thread, is that there will be very little uproar from mothers if and when conscription is introduced.

Please don't dismiss the idea of it-other mothers in earlier generations could tell you quickly the unthinkable, the 'it will never happen' can and does happen.

Still, at least in this generation of mothers, so many will be proud that their child died fighting for a war they supported.

I don't want my child to be conscripted and die some ghastly death. Does that make me a coward, someone who won't stand up for Ukraine if it means the death or maiming of my child?

Yes, I suppose it does and, although it is shaming to be in the minority when other mothers are so much braver, then I will have to live with that.

Yes as MN does now, goady threads deleted, insulting posts deleted...

Why should pro kremlin posts be allowed to stand? there are many subjects MN would not allow.

We are not in "normal" times.

Let’s say France invaded England. What do we do? Let them have Kent as long as they promise to not take anything else? Should other countries not come to our aid?

Where are people getting the idea from that Zelensky should just let Russia take land. They already invaded Crimea.

I hate war. I hate the thought of any one losing their life on the battlefield but Ukraine didn’t start this. They are trying to protect themselves.

Brilliant post, i hope MN take note.

@C0tt0nCandy you go first, how many dc would you put forward?

I see another Afghanistan in the making. Russia / USA all out for their own benefit. Country dies in the middle.
Ukraine should not agree!

You are throwing your child under a far bigger bus.

I don't think rolling over is a great option but Trump is not going to continue to bankroll it and shouting about it won't change his mind! He has massive support on this in the US.

So what's your alternative? What is your master plan?