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Original poster

To think Trump is right

1000 replies

Donotpanicoknowpanic · 01/03/2025 08:04

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument

I can't help think Trump was right and made good points

Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month

Trump wants it to stop

There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war

They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield

Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like

Ukraine has to be realistic

If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal

Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that

The European's want American troops and for good reason

But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations

And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

OP posts:
GameofPhones · 01/03/2025 10:38

Never2many · 01/03/2025 10:00

Trump is unbalanced. But last night’s debacle was so clearly staged that I’m amazed no-one else can see it.

I don’t know what the answer is, and I certainly will never give Trump credit for anything. But the fact is that this is a war which Ukraine cannot win so where does it end.

We can’t keep throwing money at them, and I certainly don’t think we should send our troops in because to do that means that we are at war with Russia and nobody is going to agree with that.

I think if Zelensky could be encouraged to resign then a different leader may be able to bring about a more peaceful agreement.

Zelenski certainly isn’t the hero some make him out to be. The only reason why he is being given hero status is because he was in charge when the war broke out. But he is in fact a vile individual with a previous track record, as well as a current one in terms of how the Ukraine people are being treated, with young men being forced into conscription and threatened if they don’t. In that regard he’s no better than any of the rest of them, and his resignation can only be a good thing.

Any FACTS to support this claim about Z's track record? Unfortunately all nations have to resort to conscription when they are attacked.

BoldRed · 01/03/2025 10:39

Puzzledandpissedoff · 01/03/2025 10:33

Of course it's a major escalataion, AllTheBestUsernamesHaveBeenTaken, and as I've said before Russia are utterly in the wrong for invading in the first place, but the situation is what it is and somehow has to be dealt with - which IMO is where the need for calmer minds comes in

As for Zelensky's corruption and posturing, the first is all out there and by the second I was referring to his pretence to be a man of principle when IMO the record doesn't support this any more than it does with Trump

Show quote history

Disgusting lies. There is NO evidence of corruption. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Weefreetiffany · 01/03/2025 10:39

ohdelay · 01/03/2025 10:31

Back in reality world ...

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Ah so you ask it of the defender but not the aggressor? Sprinkle on some gaslighting and darvo and think it’s somehow a logical argument?

LittleBigHead · 01/03/2025 10:40

You ate totally unreasonable.

Imagine that England was invaded by Wales. And the broker for peace, Scotland, started talks with Wales but did not involve England. And was talking favourably about Wales, and glossing over the fact that Wales invaded England.

And then, in public, with no warning, in front of the world's press, required that the Prime Minister of England be grateful to Scotland.

OneLemonDog · 01/03/2025 10:40

Hancox432 · 01/03/2025 10:36

So if this is the case that Putin will not stop. The only way this ends is war between Russia and the west.

Surely best to agree a ceasefire even if it's for 5 years so that we can prepare for such a war. Right now without the support of the US we wouldn't even dare to face up against Putin. We either need to US inside or need to prepare ourselves for a global conflict in the next 5-10 years.

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Even if that made perfect strategic sense to the rest of Europe, you are asking Ukraine's leader to sacrifice his country to achieve it, while being financially exploited by the US. What sort of a leader would he be to accept that?

All while he's tarred and feathered in the process.

If Trump was really trying to "make a deal", he'd be offering something to Ukraine.

aylis · 01/03/2025 10:42

Ukraine is the oppressed and terrorised country here. Trump and Vance were so out of order it's beyond words. They bullied a world leader live on TV. Trump is not fucking right.

LittleBigHead · 01/03/2025 10:42

Ukraine is in a bad position and ideally everyone would live in peace
But the answer to your question is yes
If it means I could bring my children up in a country that was not being ripped apart by war
If it meant not having to send my partner off to fight and never see him again
If it meant that I could live a life that I wanted to live them yes I would let the Americans mine the rare earth from the country

You're speaking (hardly thinking or reasoning) from a place of utter privilege @Donotpanicoknowpanic

Do you know what it's like to be under siege?

MarvellousMarch · 01/03/2025 10:42

Russia doesn't get rewarded because it doesn't get Ukraine and Ukraine gets a bigger USA backstop.

Google the deal it's good.

LittleBigHead · 01/03/2025 10:42

aylis · 01/03/2025 10:42

Ukraine is the oppressed and terrorised country here. Trump and Vance were so out of order it's beyond words. They bullied a world leader live on TV. Trump is not fucking right.

200% a million per cent this.

Trump and Vance are bullying bastards.

Alexandra2001 · 01/03/2025 10:43

ChristmasPudd1990 · 01/03/2025 10:14

If you watch the whole thing,Zelenskyy didn't come across whiter than white. Trying to start negotiation in front of the press.

I am now...

They ganged up on him... he sat their quietly, taking their shite, Trump even said he had given Javelins... BS, Biden did that...

Trump supports Putin... why is anyones guess, he is either insane/thick or the rumours that he is a Russian asset is true.

RingoJuice · 01/03/2025 10:44

wholettheturnipsburn · 01/03/2025 10:27

the Americans' behaviour was a disgrace.

How can anyone with even a shred of decency defend that or criticise zelensky.

Show quote history

What was the point of pushing for a security guarantee when it was made VERY CLEAR in prior discussions that it wasn’t going to happen.

FixTheBone · 01/03/2025 10:44

Donotpanicoknowpanic · 01/03/2025 08:04

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument

I can't help think Trump was right and made good points

Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month

Trump wants it to stop

There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war

They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield

Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like

Ukraine has to be realistic

If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal

Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that

The European's want American troops and for good reason

But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations

And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

Ukraine already signed a peace deal in 2019.

The world watched as russia ignored it, they thought it would not affect them and turned a blind eye, much the same way as they did in the mid thirties.

Failure to act up to this point is what has cost countless lives.

MarvellousMarch · 01/03/2025 10:44

@Alexandra2001 what would you like trump to say about putin publicly and on air

Alexandra2001 · 01/03/2025 10:45

MarvellousMarch · 01/03/2025 10:42

Russia doesn't get rewarded because it doesn't get Ukraine and Ukraine gets a bigger USA backstop.

Google the deal it's good.

Russia gets to keep the 25% it has illegal invaded.... keeps Crimea and will have total control once again over the Black Sea.

Would a US company mining in Ukraine stop Russia? No.

ohdelay · 01/03/2025 10:45

Weefreetiffany · 01/03/2025 10:39

Ah so you ask it of the defender but not the aggressor? Sprinkle on some gaslighting and darvo and think it’s somehow a logical argument?

Show quote history

One million dead, what's your solution? An actual solution not keyboard warrioring from England. Bear in mind no western country would just eat one million deaths and no one is sending in western troops to get butchered by drones Also US have said no to NATO membership (us or them situation with Ukraine), so go on then, what's your solution?

StandFirm · 01/03/2025 10:46

For those who don't understand the difference between peace through victory and capitulation: the reality of any country invaded and conquered by another is that the citizens of that country lose all their rights and have no recourse to justice. It means corruption on an epic scale. It means discrimination and exploitation on an epic scale. It means endemic poverty as the natural resources are plundered for the benefit of others. It means a vicious cycle of puppet dictators. There is no hope for such countries. That also means millions more displaced but I bet the Trump/Putin fans out here don't fancy taking in more refugees.

Donttellempike · 01/03/2025 10:46

Nothatgingerpirate · 01/03/2025 10:09

Yes, he's right.
Finally someone sensible.
I have been called a bot, a russian troll etc.
I'm a 46 yo Czech woman living in the UK
and I think someone told Mr. Zelensky as it is, nobody would before, for "morality".
I would LOVE to pack it in here and return to Prague, where I come from, after 25 years.
The amount of Ukrainian refugees in that city is larger than refugees in the whole of Britain, apparently.
And that is one reason why I still sit on the fence.
I'm not a fucking bot, this is not my war and I'm fed up of it.

It’s not about you is it? Do you think the Ukrainian people are not fed up of it ?? JFC

Alexandra2001 · 01/03/2025 10:46

MarvellousMarch · 01/03/2025 10:44

@Alexandra2001 what would you like trump to say about putin publicly and on air

ummmm how about condemning Putins actions...?

Trump hasn't been slow in accusing Ukraine of starting the war and Zelenskyy of being a dictator...

Hancox432 · 01/03/2025 10:46

Biscuitsnotcookies · 01/03/2025 10:36

Let’s not be black and white on this. It’s far too complex.
Everyone wants the war to end (for different reasons) to be fair to the US they are at least attempting to broker some kind of peace deal. It seems Europe are just standing by and doing absolutely nothing. Where is the European initiative??

Europe wants to stand by Ukraine but sadly is realistic that nothing will be accomplished without US support. Sadly I imagine this weekend will be European leaders begging Zelenskey to go crawling back to Trump to broker this deal.

We can all be disgusted and pissed off but the fact of the matter is that without the US support. Ukraine is fucked, sadly Trump knows this so is using that to ensure the US profits from it all.

ZebedeeDougalFlorence · 01/03/2025 10:48

Donotpanicoknowpanic · 01/03/2025 08:08

I am referring more to the underlaying message rather than the way it was delivered

Whichever finishing school they went to, there parents should ask for a refund

That is not the point I'm making

"their" not "there". Thank you.

Biscuitsnotcookies · 01/03/2025 10:48

I support Ukraine and can understand why Zelenskyy feels as he does, but there isn’t going to be a perfect ideal ending to this. Compromised are needed on all sides.

OneLemonDog · 01/03/2025 10:48

Hancox432 · 01/03/2025 10:46

Europe wants to stand by Ukraine but sadly is realistic that nothing will be accomplished without US support. Sadly I imagine this weekend will be European leaders begging Zelenskey to go crawling back to Trump to broker this deal.

We can all be disgusted and pissed off but the fact of the matter is that without the US support. Ukraine is fucked, sadly Trump knows this so is using that to ensure the US profits from it all.

Show quote history

There isn't really a deal on the table, though.

Zelensky and Ukraine aren't being offered anything.

What is there to accept?

OneLemonDog · 01/03/2025 10:49

Biscuitsnotcookies · 01/03/2025 10:48

I support Ukraine and can understand why Zelenskyy feels as he does, but there isn’t going to be a perfect ideal ending to this. Compromised are needed on all sides.

And what compromise are Russia and the US making?

Who, other than Ukraine, is losing anything here?

Hancox432 · 01/03/2025 10:49

OneLemonDog · 01/03/2025 10:40

Even if that made perfect strategic sense to the rest of Europe, you are asking Ukraine's leader to sacrifice his country to achieve it, while being financially exploited by the US. What sort of a leader would he be to accept that?

All while he's tarred and feathered in the process.

If Trump was really trying to "make a deal", he'd be offering something to Ukraine.

Show quote history

Sadly he likely has no choice for now. Without US support capitulation will ensure within that 5 year period. Ideally Europe have Ukraines back with boots on the ground but we know that without US support Europe wouldn't want to escalate any more.

EasternStandard · 01/03/2025 10:50

Biscuitsnotcookies · 01/03/2025 10:36

Let’s not be black and white on this. It’s far too complex.
Everyone wants the war to end (for different reasons) to be fair to the US they are at least attempting to broker some kind of peace deal. It seems Europe are just standing by and doing absolutely nothing. Where is the European initiative??

So far it's ask US for security which has been a no

Europe will have to decide if they advise Zelenskyy to go ahead without it or risk US walking

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