Page 14 | To think Trump is right

Donotpanicoknowpanic · 2025-03-01T08:04:40+00:00

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument I can't help think Trump was right and made good points Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month Trump wants it to stop There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like Ukraine has to be realistic If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that The European's want American troops and for good reason But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

Hancox432 · 01/03/2025 10:29

AlecTrevelyan006 · 01/03/2025 10:07

Any peace deal with Putin is only temporary. In 5, 10, 15 years... Russia will invade Ukraine again. Anyone with half a brain knows this.

Surely best for this to happen and let Europe sort their shit and military out and face them when we would stand half a chance.

Right now without US support, like it or lump it Europe would fail miserably. Just as people say Putin will use time to regroup, that's exactly what Europe needs to do. Not throw endless money to keep the war going on the off chance Putin may get bored.

queenofarles · 01/03/2025 10:29

The way the meeting was conducted and broadcasted is actually rather concerning , yes the war needs to stop , Zelensky can’t keep asking for money and help.
. Vance has no authority or right to even address A free elected President in this manner, Trump making it more personal and bringing in Biden and hunter , totally shocking this is no longer a respected free democratic country.

Inertia · 01/03/2025 10:29

Everybody wants peace, apart from Putin.

Trump is blaming Zelensky for Putin invading his country- probably because Trump is in Putin’s pocket, but also Trump has his own expansionist policies.

Trump’s leadership is turning out to be even more disastrous than anyone envisaged.

Weefreetiffany · 01/03/2025 10:30

ohdelay · 01/03/2025 10:27

Trump is right that the numbers dead are now obscene and that war is futile. There's so many things we've normalised over the past 3 years that are actually obscene. A million dead who were going about their lives 3 years ago. Just saying a million dead is bizarre. It's holocaust numbers but we think its normal. Sci-fi Terminator style killing with drones on the front pages of the news. Actually referring to the rate of killing as "the meat grinder" and gloating about the number of Russian dead ignoring the fact the Ukrainians have had the same. Also when did dead Russians become something we cheered? Internet ghouls posting individuals dying and it being picked up and shown in mainstream press. That 18 year old kid from Yorkshire who volunteered and died on his first mission within minutes. The weirdness about the North Koreans and urge to capture one alive for PR opportunities. So many things I didn't think we'd be doing in 2025
If there was a deal 3 years ago that could have prevented this it should have been taken. It will be hard to accept a deal now after all the death but going on the same way isn't an option anymore thanks to Trump. The US have decided they're not sponsoring the slaughter any more so unless Europe is willing to pay for it by themselves I think someone will take a deal.

Yes take these complaints to russia as they are the bad actor here and should surrender to peace immediately to stop more dead and give back the land they invaded and stole

Flustration · 01/03/2025 10:30

MarvellousMarch · 01/03/2025 10:25

@AllTheBestUsernamesHaveBeenTaken

I guess it's different ideas of what capitulation means, to many on here it seems it's where anything at all is given to putin and he needs to driven out of every inch of Ukraine soil.
I'd like that too and putin dragged to eu for war crimes and all his honchos rounded up. A new truly democratic leader put in the kremlin and take away their nuke power.

Is that likely to happen?

Putin wants the whole of Ukraine and to me making a deal where he doesn't get it is a good one for Ukraine in these circumstances

Putin wants the whole of Ukraine and to me making a deal where he doesn't get it is a good one for Ukraine in these circumstances

How about a deal where (1) Russia gets to keep the land it has annexed (2) the US get a financial incentive in the form of a share in rare earth minerals to continue their protection of Ukraine (3) the US commit to protect Ukraine from Russia attempting to take further land after the signing of the peace treaty.

Because, as far as I understand it, this is what Ukraine was prepared to agree to.

billysboy · 01/03/2025 10:31

Asking Russia to pull out is a bit like asking Hamas to just return all the hostages tomorrow and then they could all have a ceasefire

Zelensky has to be more of a realist ,its unlikely that he will get all of Ukraines territory back , not a great meeting that didnt shine anyone in a good light at all

UK needs to find the money from somewhere to increase our defences as we clearly cannot rely on the US to have our backs

ohdelay · 01/03/2025 10:31

Weefreetiffany · 01/03/2025 10:30

Yes take these complaints to russia as they are the bad actor here and should surrender to peace immediately to stop more dead and give back the land they invaded and stole

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Back in reality world ...

sleepwouldbenice · 01/03/2025 10:32

jacks11 · 01/03/2025 10:23

I cannot believe you watched that utterly disgraceful (probably fully set up) farce and came out of that thinking “Trump is so sensible”. Mind boggling! He is abhorrent. I’m not saying he is never correct- even a stopped clock is right twice a day, after all. But mostly I think he is a danger to us all.

He is right that Europe has been shirking our responsibilities when it comes to our own defence, not spending enough to keep our armed forces capable of defending ourselves, chiding instead to rely on our belief that the US would always back us up, if needed. This was incredibly short sighted and a failure in the collective political class of Europe. We were warned directly that the US was not keen to continue doing this for Europe, they had other priorities and we chose to ignore it. We were stupid enough to ignore those warnings, and look where we are now. Though I would also argue that the voters were not keen to see defence spending rises either. We got what we demanded, few politicians had the balls to stand up and say otherwise.

However, US chose to take on the role they played for decades because it suited them too- politically, both at home and abroad, as well as having financial benefits. They didn’t take on that role out of pure altruism, just as they did not involve themselves in any conflict out of pure altruism. To think otherwise is extremely naive.

I also think you are incredibly naive if you think the reason Trump is doing this is because he is a lover of peace. The only thing that man loves is himself, everything he does is to benefit him, either by stroking his ego or make him look like “the big man” to himself and his followers. He is supportive if Putin, always has been. They are similar in many ways. not only that, but he is after Ukraine’s natural resources and the way he is doing it- taking so much from a country which is going to need all it can get to fund it’s recovery- is dispicable. They have the support under the last administration with no mention of vast grabs of Ukraine’s national resources. To retrospectively demand payment- and not just enough to pay what is spent but asking for significantly more (which is the reality of what Trump has proposed), knowing that the other party are desperate is akin to loan sharks. A country supposedly as “great” as the US should be above such behaviour. Or at least own it for what it is, rather than dressing up the financial rape of another country as doing them a favour for which they should be grateful. I’d add that the vast majority of the “money given” never left the US- it was spent one way or another on American produced equipment/munitions.

Rewarding Putin now will not stop this problem- it will push it down the line for months, maybe a few years- but he will be back, whether Ukraine or somewhere else.

Totally agree

And for those saying Ukraine should be pleased Russia hasn't got the whole country....there are no words

He just wants robust security, if not NATO then some other format. He's even giving up minerals for that

So to turn the question around, why is asking for security and being willing to pay for it in the future, so bad?

Naunet · 01/03/2025 10:33

So basically, if you boil it down, you support bullying and think bullies should be given whatever they want? How incredibly weak.

ApplesForMe · 01/03/2025 10:33

There was no peace deal to be signed, as long as the States would not guarantee Ukraines security then it was worthless. Then, after Russia succeeds in dismantling Ukraine, he will go after the Baltic states. Putin has said they also should not exist. And then where next, Poland? Georgia? Us?

AllTheBestUsernamesHaveBeenTaken · 01/03/2025 10:33

OneLemonDog · 01/03/2025 10:27

How much of Europe are you ultimately prepared to hand over to Russia? And how important is it that the US gets its slice?

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This. That’s why I detest the fence-sitting “both sides” argument. Last I checked, it’s quite clear who the aggressor is and somehow Ukraine is expecting to wave the white flag 🏳️ and not defend itself. Also, what’s to stop Russia to continue to encroach upon other countries once it’s devoured Ukraine?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 01/03/2025 10:33

AllTheBestUsernamesHaveBeenTaken · 01/03/2025 10:22

@Puzzledandpissedoff In what way is Zelensky “a fellow corrupt and posturing fool”?? Would love to hear your thoughts. Calmer heads when a war has been ongoing for over 3 years when Russia invaded Ukraine? Don’t you think this was a major escalation of the Russo-Ukrainian War which has been going on for over a decade? Or do you think Ukraine should have rolled over and given up their independency?

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Of course it's a major escalataion, AllTheBestUsernamesHaveBeenTaken, and as I've said before Russia are utterly in the wrong for invading in the first place, but the situation is what it is and somehow has to be dealt with - which IMO is where the need for calmer minds comes in

As for Zelensky's corruption and posturing, the first is all out there and by the second I was referring to his pretence to be a man of principle when IMO the record doesn't support this any more than it does with Trump

Notonthestairs · 01/03/2025 10:33

"How about a deal where (1) Russia gets to keep the land it has annexed (2) the US get a financial incentive in the form of a share in rare earth minerals to continue their protection of Ukraine (3) the US commit to protect Ukraine from Russia attempting to take further land after the signing of the peace treaty. "

The problem is that Putin has no intention of stopping. So much so he won't even pay lip service to the idea.

vitahelp · 01/03/2025 10:34

I think a lot of people think they agree with Trump because he said he wants peace and to avoid more deaths. But his reasons are different to yours and are not pure, and are also short-termist. So you aren’t actually aligned with him.

SlothMama · 01/03/2025 10:34

Op, you're an idiot.

GreenPaint1 · 01/03/2025 10:34

So Mexico want land back from America. Is Trump going to back down for the sake of peace?

AllTheBestUsernamesHaveBeenTaken · 01/03/2025 10:35

Puzzledandpissedoff · 01/03/2025 10:33

Of course it's a major escalataion, AllTheBestUsernamesHaveBeenTaken, and as I've said before Russia are utterly in the wrong for invading in the first place, but the situation is what it is and somehow has to be dealt with - which IMO is where the need for calmer minds comes in

As for Zelensky's corruption and posturing, the first is all out there and by the second I was referring to his pretence to be a man of principle when IMO the record doesn't support this any more than it does with Trump

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@Puzzledandpissedoff If you want to prove your point, it would be helpful to provide actual sources?

Wildflowers99 · 01/03/2025 10:35

Notonthestairs · 01/03/2025 10:33

"How about a deal where (1) Russia gets to keep the land it has annexed (2) the US get a financial incentive in the form of a share in rare earth minerals to continue their protection of Ukraine (3) the US commit to protect Ukraine from Russia attempting to take further land after the signing of the peace treaty. "

The problem is that Putin has no intention of stopping. So much so he won't even pay lip service to the idea.

Yea and if the USA seriously thought that the Russians would settle for this, they would not find security guarantees at all problematic as they would feel confident they’d never have to see them through. So why don’t they?

Weefreetiffany · 01/03/2025 10:35

Flustration · 01/03/2025 10:30

Putin wants the whole of Ukraine and to me making a deal where he doesn't get it is a good one for Ukraine in these circumstances

How about a deal where (1) Russia gets to keep the land it has annexed (2) the US get a financial incentive in the form of a share in rare earth minerals to continue their protection of Ukraine (3) the US commit to protect Ukraine from Russia attempting to take further land after the signing of the peace treaty.

Because, as far as I understand it, this is what Ukraine was prepared to agree to.

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Annexed is a really polite way of saying invaded another countries sovereign territory in a violent and bloody coupe, don’t you think? Why do they get rewarded for that behaviour by getting to keep the land? Whats to stop them doing it again?

why dont EU countries that have been financing ukraine also get a share of the goodies putin is after?

astoundingly bad take that is over simplified and devoid of context.

the DARVO on this thread is insane.

Iheartlibrarians · 01/03/2025 10:36

hairbearbunches · 01/03/2025 10:11

Chamberlain and Halifax fought in WW1 and had seen first hand the devastation of millions of young men being sent to their deaths in the most appalling way. There was no shame in trying to prevent another generation suffering the same fate.

The prevailing narrative is that Chamberlain was a coward but he bought this country very valuable time to rearm. We were in no position to fight another war.

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I entirely agree that Chamberlain wasn't as vapid as the narrative that started the thread.

I maintain that it's catastrophically naive in both examples to think that tyrants stick to peace deals.

Hancox432 · 01/03/2025 10:36

Notonthestairs · 01/03/2025 10:33

"How about a deal where (1) Russia gets to keep the land it has annexed (2) the US get a financial incentive in the form of a share in rare earth minerals to continue their protection of Ukraine (3) the US commit to protect Ukraine from Russia attempting to take further land after the signing of the peace treaty. "

The problem is that Putin has no intention of stopping. So much so he won't even pay lip service to the idea.

So if this is the case that Putin will not stop. The only way this ends is war between Russia and the west.

Surely best to agree a ceasefire even if it's for 5 years so that we can prepare for such a war. Right now without the support of the US we wouldn't even dare to face up against Putin. We either need to US inside or need to prepare ourselves for a global conflict in the next 5-10 years.

OneLemonDog · 01/03/2025 10:36

billysboy · 01/03/2025 10:31

Asking Russia to pull out is a bit like asking Hamas to just return all the hostages tomorrow and then they could all have a ceasefire

Zelensky has to be more of a realist ,its unlikely that he will get all of Ukraines territory back , not a great meeting that didnt shine anyone in a good light at all

UK needs to find the money from somewhere to increase our defences as we clearly cannot rely on the US to have our backs

He isnt expecting all of Ukraine's territory back, but what incentive does he have here?

He's being asked to give up the land and, in return....he/Ukraine gets nothing but also gets to be extorted by the US.

You're basically just getting a brief pause in the invasion, while the US mugs them.

MarvellousMarch · 01/03/2025 10:36

Putin cannot take Ukraine why does anyone think he will go after Poland or even the USA.
Bombers from every which way would take out the kremlin and I bet if that happened the Russians themselves would have a coup.

Biscuitsnotcookies · 01/03/2025 10:36

Let’s not be black and white on this. It’s far too complex.
Everyone wants the war to end (for different reasons) to be fair to the US they are at least attempting to broker some kind of peace deal. It seems Europe are just standing by and doing absolutely nothing. Where is the European initiative??

Cushionseams · 01/03/2025 10:38

You are deluded if you think trump is interested in anything but lining his own pockets with Ukraine's resources. He does not give a shiny shit about Ukraine, its soldiers or borders