To think Trump is right

[Donotpanicoknowpanic]

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument

I can't help think Trump was right and made good points

Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month

Trump wants it to stop

There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war

They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield

Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like

Ukraine has to be realistic

If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal

Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that

The European's want American troops and for good reason

But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations

And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

If it means I could bring my children up in a country that was not being ripped apart by war
If it meant not having to send my partner off to fight and never see him again
If it meant that I could live a life that I wanted to live them yes I would let the Americans mine the rare earth from the country

That's an awful lot of IFs, @Donotpanicoknowpanic
Did you note that Trump did not tie in security guarantees with his 'peace' deal? As always, the devil is in the details.

Your partner might WANT to fight to the death to be free of Russian threats.

Your children might think that you sold out their heritage for what YOU wanted and not what THEY want.

Appeasement to bullying is never the answer. It just leads to more bullying.

America under Trump isn't interested in Ukraine, except as an opportunity to show support for/woo Russia in hopes that they will become allies against China.

MN says that you are a genuine poster so I would suggest you start again by thinking critically and not emotionally. Look widely at the situation from both sides; analyse the information including historic Trump moves. You might even come up with a different conclusion.

If Russia stopped fighting there would be no more war.

If Ukraine stopped fighting there would be no more Ukraine.

That's all that needs to be said.

Click all the photos that include traffic lights, and demonstrate basic political literacy by answering these three multiple choice questions.’😀

“Posturing fool” I think not. What I saw was a courageous, human being mocked and disrespected by a group of clearly ignorant bullies.

An amusing little cartoon on Twitter explains the situation: x.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1895549720795189442

My child is profoundly disabled. What I am not keen on is what the nazis did to people like him. Things that the Trump/Musk administration are already well on their way to replicating, so I am in no doubt which side of history they would have been on. Look up Aktion 24, and learn something.

And it’s not “some Eastern European forest” to Ukraine. It’s their own country. It’s the equivalent of talking about them fighting in the Forest of Dean or on Hampstead Heath. You really expect them to just give in because people are dying? Would you if this was happening on your doorstep?

And I don’t expect my child or anyone to fight my battles for me. If my country was invaded by a totalitarian dictator hellbent on doing things that would destroy my friends and family I would fight them myself.

Peace at any cost is not peace, it’s like sticking a trapdoor on a volcano - it’s going to erupt again sooner or later. The origins of WW2 lie firmly in the lack of firm resolution to WW1, for example.

Trump is NOT RIGHT. Ukraine should not give in to giving up a tiny part of their country because that isn’t what Putin really wants. You think he’ll stop at the partial annexation of Ukraine? Of course not. First a bit, then some more, then Ukraine is gone. Then Slovakia and Poland. Austria and Germany. France. Putin, Trump and Musk are just repeating patterns we’ve all seen before and it sure as shit didn’t go well last time.

Ukraine has no option but to fight as Russia invaded their country
and is continuing to attack them,you know like the Germans did to Poland in the 30s. Would you expect our country to just stop fighting if it had been the uk that had been invaded?

Wow, talk about victim blaming!! Here’s an even simpler solution for you op - why don’t you go ask Russia, the very clear aggressor, to pull out and stop invading another Country! FFS - Ukraine has done nothing but defend itself, they have no reason to be sorry.

THIS

If you watched it, have you heard what Zelensky was trying to say?

Last peace lasted 3 years, 2019-2022. After mere three years Putin attacked again and with bigger strength.
Putin wasn't deterred by large US companies operating in the area. What would be different?

Trump's talking about a compromise, but what compromise on the Putin's side are we talking about?

Trump: Give me all your money otherwise I will feed you to Russia. If you don't give it to me I still won't help.

The only thing Trump proved yesterday that he has no clue about diplomacy and can't negotiate (probably why he's had so many bankruptcies). Vance is little more than a lapdog trying to bolster his own candidacy amongst the most degenerate of right wing voters.

America is a rogue state now and Europe should treat it as such and show they don't need America any more. Certainly not while the orange menace is in charge.

@Puzzledandpissedoff In what way is Zelensky “a fellow corrupt and posturing fool”?? Would love to hear your thoughts. Calmer heads when a war has been ongoing for over 3 years when Russia invaded Ukraine? Don’t you think this was a major escalation of the Russo-Ukrainian War which has been going on for over a decade? Or do you think Ukraine should have rolled over and given up their independency?

I cannot believe you watched that utterly disgraceful (probably fully set up) farce and came out of that thinking “Trump is so sensible”. Mind boggling! He is abhorrent. I’m not saying he is never correct- even a stopped clock is right twice a day, after all. But mostly I think he is a danger to us all.

He is right that Europe has been shirking our responsibilities when it comes to our own defence, not spending enough to keep our armed forces capable of defending ourselves, chiding instead to rely on our belief that the US would always back us up, if needed. This was incredibly short sighted and a failure in the collective political class of Europe. We were warned directly that the US was not keen to continue doing this for Europe, they had other priorities and we chose to ignore it. We were stupid enough to ignore those warnings, and look where we are now. Though I would also argue that the voters were not keen to see defence spending rises either. We got what we demanded, few politicians had the balls to stand up and say otherwise.

However, US chose to take on the role they played for decades because it suited them too- politically, both at home and abroad, as well as having financial benefits. They didn’t take on that role out of pure altruism, just as they did not involve themselves in any conflict out of pure altruism. To think otherwise is extremely naive.

I also think you are incredibly naive if you think the reason Trump is doing this is because he is a lover of peace. The only thing that man loves is himself, everything he does is to benefit him, either by stroking his ego or make him look like “the big man” to himself and his followers. He is supportive if Putin, always has been. They are similar in many ways. not only that, but he is after Ukraine’s natural resources and the way he is doing it- taking so much from a country which is going to need all it can get to fund it’s recovery- is dispicable. They have the support under the last administration with no mention of vast grabs of Ukraine’s national resources. To retrospectively demand payment- and not just enough to pay what is spent but asking for significantly more (which is the reality of what Trump has proposed), knowing that the other party are desperate is akin to loan sharks. A country supposedly as “great” as the US should be above such behaviour. Or at least own it for what it is, rather than dressing up the financial rape of another country as doing them a favour for which they should be grateful. I’d add that the vast majority of the “money given” never left the US- it was spent one way or another on American produced equipment/munitions.

Rewarding Putin now will not stop this problem- it will push it down the line for months, maybe a few years- but he will be back, whether Ukraine or somewhere else.

Horrific thread
I really do wonder what motivates people to post this shit - well I don't wonder but I prefer not to get banned (again)

did you misread what i said? why are you asking me that?

Europe is going to have to rely on itself soon anyway.

The US is dismantling it's own government - chances are fairly high it faces some kind of security, environmental or health disaster at some point.

They're getting rid of the people who spot tornadoes and tsunamis, likely won't have flu vaccines this winter. A whole load of veterans out of work, losing mental gealth support.

A country where anyone can pick up a gun where the rule of law is being overturned.

This doesn't end well.

@AllTheBestUsernamesHaveBeenTaken

I guess it's different ideas of what capitulation means, to many on here it seems it's where anything at all is given to putin and he needs to driven out of every inch of Ukraine soil.
I'd like that too and putin dragged to eu for war crimes and all his honchos rounded up. A new truly democratic leader put in the kremlin and take away their nuke power.

Is that likely to happen?

Putin wants the whole of Ukraine and to me making a deal where he doesn't get it is a good one for Ukraine in these circumstances

I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Russia are not going to stop fighting without an incentive to do so, how would you suggest how any kind of peace would evolve in the next 20 years from this position? Until every last man is dead?

Both sides are locked in. That’s the issue here.

How much of Europe are you ultimately prepared to hand over to Russia? And how important is it that the US gets its slice?

I completely agree and I don’t understand how anyone in their right mind cannot see that. @Donotpanicoknowpanic You are completely unreasonable to believe that Mango Mussolini has some good points.

NO. Trump wants the rare resources from Ukraine. Trump is only interested in Trump. If Ukraine and the world capitulate to Putin then he will carry on and it will be a greater threat to us all. Trump is a narcissistic, abusive, misogynistic and dangerously powerful man. He is not fit govern a lunch out yet alone the most powerful nation in the world. Absolute gaslighting behaviour from both of them. Disgusting and abhorrent.

Of course we all want the war to end but Putin needs to be stopped. You give a bully an inch they take the world.

Trump is right that the numbers dead are now obscene and that war is futile. There's so many things we've normalised over the past 3 years that are actually obscene. A million dead who were going about their lives 3 years ago. Just saying a million dead is bizarre. It's holocaust numbers but we think its normal. Sci-fi Terminator style killing with drones on the front pages of the news. Actually referring to the rate of killing as "the meat grinder" and gloating about the number of Russian dead ignoring the fact the Ukrainians have had the same. Also when did dead Russians become something we cheered? Internet ghouls posting individuals dying and it being picked up and shown in mainstream press. That 18 year old kid from Yorkshire who volunteered and died on his first mission within minutes. The weirdness about the North Koreans and urge to capture one alive for PR opportunities. So many things I didn't think we'd be doing in 2025
If there was a deal 3 years ago that could have prevented this it should have been taken. It will be hard to accept a deal now after all the death but going on the same way isn't an option anymore thanks to Trump. The US have decided they're not sponsoring the slaughter any more so unless Europe is willing to pay for it by themselves I think someone will take a deal.

the Americans' behaviour was a disgrace.

How can anyone with even a shred of decency defend that or criticise zelensky.

Well anyone who has been paying attention to history knows troops have been dying for the last decade and Trump is not in the altruistic help business.

he is a bully that supports might is right because the game eas rigged in his favour

he has that in common with Putin. Men of ego. Men who poor out others blood when it fits their agenda.

in Russia they say Zelenski is like hitler and they are saving Ukraine by invasion. Of course theyre not free to disagree like we are on an open forum.

if they point out something sounds like propaganda they get sanctioned economically and socially. Here we just get a rap on the knuckles and threats of account suspension from mumsnet hq.

hopefully people keep their critical thinking skills sharp when they engage

I completely agree with you.
Although it really hurts to agree with Trump, who is still an egotistical narcissistic bully.