To think Trump is right

[Donotpanicoknowpanic]

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument

I can't help think Trump was right and made good points

Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month

Trump wants it to stop

There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war

They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield

Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like

Ukraine has to be realistic

If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal

Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that

The European's want American troops and for good reason

But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations

And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

I am just going come in here as a peace-broker between you and the homeowner. All the homeowner needs to do is give me the garden to build a block of flats on and I might make sure you don’t go into the bedroom.

The way that meeting was conducted was appalling. Trump and particularly Vance are unfit to hold their positions, that much is obvious.

The point that they were very badly trying to make is valid. The US and Europe can't bankroll Ukraine indefinitely. Russia won't stop their war, at best a few years of peace can be agreed by ceding all the territory they've captured to them officially in an internationally-agreed manner. The west has to decide at what point they want to get involved militarily and turn a local conflict into a global one. We can do it now, we can wait until we are directly threatened or even invaded by Russia.

At some point the west will have to fight Russia, a fight which will almost certainly result in the destruction of the human race. The choice is how soon do we want to make ourselves extinct, now or in a few years? In the bigger scheme of things it doesn't really matter.

Perhaps the only hope is if China decides they don't like the idea of them being wiped out because of a conflict between Russia and the West and turn on Russia. Russia v the West is a fight neither side can win, but Russia v the West and China is a fight that could potentially see Russia defeated. Knowing China though I think this unlikely, they would probably rather see themselves wiped out along with the rest of our species sooner than join with the West. They see the Ukraine conflict and potential for WWIII as a chance to shoot themselves to a position of global dominance if the US/Europe/Russia wipe each other out.

I've noticed OP never answers these types of direct questions. Just repeats their talking points.

We have had a Ukrainian fsmily living with us since just after the war started. Husband and son are fighting, still. No, Trump is not right. Putin will not stop. I have Romanian friends who are terrified they will be next. Why should Ukraine or indeed the rest of the world give in to a bully? What does that teach him? That he can do it again, and again, and again.

If Trump really believes Russia respects him and wouldn’t break a ceasefire under his watch, why not just provide the security guarantees?

Trump is unbalanced. But last night’s debacle was so clearly staged that I’m amazed no-one else can see it.

I don’t know what the answer is, and I certainly will never give Trump credit for anything. But the fact is that this is a war which Ukraine cannot win so where does it end.

We can’t keep throwing money at them, and I certainly don’t think we should send our troops in because to do that means that we are at war with Russia and nobody is going to agree with that.

I think if Zelensky could be encouraged to resign then a different leader may be able to bring about a more peaceful agreement.

Zelenski certainly isn’t the hero some make him out to be. The only reason why he is being given hero status is because he was in charge when the war broke out. But he is in fact a vile individual with a previous track record, as well as a current one in terms of how the Ukraine people are being treated, with young men being forced into conscription and threatened if they don’t. In that regard he’s no better than any of the rest of them, and his resignation can only be a good thing.

Indeed - so Russia gets what it wanted all along - to take back parts of Ukraine.

and it sets the precedent - anyone, anywhere could now wage an unwinable war where millions of young men get killed and eventually the world will give you what you want. It’s a game of chess, using innocent young lives as pawns.

Russia was the aggressor and NOONE should be capitulating on any level to their demands. If they do, everything Ukraine has suffered is for nothing. I’d be beyond bitter if I were Ukrainian and Trump’s deal was settled for. Everyone wins, except for Ukraine.

I never suggested they were not wary of each other or their isnt power play

but countries that are reliant on another are not going to rock the boat when it’s not necessary for them to

@RingoJuice

Rubio is all over putin he knows his measure and I'm sure he wholeheartedly agrees with zelensky that putin can't be trusted.
It seems to be they have come up with a stragety to try and let all sides win but that does rest on dialogue.
The problem is people want trump to face putin down, I've got bigger nukes you evil fucker you just try it.
That's not how trump wants to operate but he has sent out threats to Russia he talks in a consillstory way but then throws in but obviously our military is the greatest biggest best so I wouldn't want to try that either.
That's for Russia!

Trumps team are not pro putin and some were definitely not pro Donald either.
Rubio walked zelensky to the door I don't think rubio threw him out.
The strategists have trump to circumnavigate putin and zelensky.

The message is there sign the deal and you will get money to rebuild and we get something to defend.

young men being forced into conscription and threatened if they don’t

That is how conscription works the world over.

Agree. I’m 66 years old. I’ve seen various American presidents do various deals through time. And the one thing l’ve learned is that the USA doesn’t do anything without there being something in it for them. In this case ‘peace’ is the excuse for an interest in Ukraine’s natural resources - if/when a peace deal is struck it will be rebuilding contracts. In that respect Trump is probably no different from his predecessors. It’s the revolting narcissistic attitude that sets him aside. He and Vance expected Zelenskyy to just stand back and meekly watch them effectively carving up his country for their own gain, and in that process Trump and Vance showed themselves for what they are. Narcissistic, self congratulating bullies.

And just as likely is them not wanting to go back to their homes because those homes are now under Russian control so they wouldn't be going back to Ukraine but to Russia.

The posters above who say they are Ukrainian/have families in Ukraine and just want the war to stop, are you happy for it to stop with you or your families becoming Russian but with fewer rights than the majority of Russian citizens? Because you can be sure that whatever parts of Ukraine end up as part of Russia, will have "native" Russians in charge & having all the good jobs & houses while "native" Ukrainians will get any dross that's left over.

And if you ended up living in the bit that became part of Russia? You'd be ok with America having traded you, your actual life, from living in a democracy to living in a totalitarian state with no access to anything you now consider to be part of the freedom of your daily life - like the freedom to discuss this without being slung in jail for instance - you'd be ok with that?

Many people don't believe there are much rare earth minerals there anyway isn't that odd?

Yes this! Anyone thinking this deal will equal ‘peace’ is deluded. Perhaps ‘peace’ for a few years but it will only be short term and is just kicking the can up the road.

Russia was never going to back down.

Come on, fair enough about the points that he wants peace, but watching the interview I cannot see anywhere where he said compassionately that he wants no more killing, wants peace etc, no! What he did do was make the whole interview about himself and the USA, and going on and on about how Zelensky has not thanked the USA for stepping in and saving the day!

If this war was between the US and Ukraine and this was the situation then I'd be inclined to agree with the OP, but Putin is the person we are talking about here and he is NOT going to agree to reducing his wins of territory. Trump can lecture Zelensky all he likes and try to guilt-trip him (am pretty sure Putin has tried the same tactics) but ultimately Putin has to agree to terms as well. We don't even know what those are going to be, is Russia going to keep all the territory they have? Can understand Zelensky is not going to be happy with that, at all.

As for all the 'your young men are dying' - er yes, it's a war!! What do you expect, no-one wants to see that, but guess what, if your country is invaded then you do what you have to.

Trump fancies himself as some super negotiator but he's utter rubbish. Who deals with a very delicate situation by letting their rottweiler vice president savage Zelensky, try to bully him into 'being thankful' and criticise his dress sense? You can tell who has been up to their eyeballs in the war and who has been comfortably sitting on the side and is now off on a skiing holiday, no wars to worry about.

Op by your logic the rest of MN should be able to come and raid your house but you and your family should let us to keep the peace.

Trump doesn't want a just peace. He wants a Russian victory because he's now aligning the US with Putin.

A would be dictator obviously prefers an existing one to a freely elected President.

@heldinadream what's the alternative for the entirety of Ukraine I thought the big fear is putin taking over the whole of Ukraine so no one in Ukraine can speak freely?

Indeed.

A Russian and a Brit board a flight to the UK and get chatting. The Brit asks, "what brings you to the UK?"

"I'm here to study your propaganda techniques"

"What propagada?" 😁

Any peace deal with Putin is only temporary. In 5, 10, 15 years... Russia will invade Ukraine again. Anyone with half a brain knows this.

Putin wants the US's help so has dangled the carrot of mining rare minerals in front of Trump. All Trump is seeing is $ signs and will do anything for it. Trump is too stupid to realise that, at some point, Putin will want payback
Putin " Donald, my friend, it's time for you to pay me back for all the minerals I have let you have"
Trump " Sure what do you want?"
Putin " Alaska"

Only then will Trump realise that he's been taken for the idiot he is.

The costs would be enormous - you'd have to be paid a pretty big salary to want to work there.