To think Trump is right

[Donotpanicoknowpanic]

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument

I can't help think Trump was right and made good points

Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month

Trump wants it to stop

There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war

They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield

Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like

Ukraine has to be realistic

If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal

Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that

The European's want American troops and for good reason

But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations

And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

I agree.
That's what they've decided.
Ukraine is done.

@EasternStandard if Russia backs off it may give Zelensky more time
to reconsider and finally sign that deal. Z needed to understand that America wasn’t going to get suckered into a security guarantee.

I think of it as a proxy war really being fought between U.S. / Europe and Russia. Russia won’t stop. This war is just another go around of their earlier incursion into Ukraine where they annexed Crimea.

It’s quite Orwellian but it’s like the U.S. have switched sides and all the Trumpers will believe that they were always on the same side and anything else is fake news. U.S. and Russia can divvy up the wealth of Ukraine. Russia can rebuild and carry on its incursions into Europe.

I do wonder if there is an element of want this settled as clearly Chinese are next big threat and a war on two fronts is never good

Because Putin helped him get elected the first time

There are ex KGB people who say Trump was bought by the Russians decades ago... seems totally unbelievable but a POTUS siding with Russia hasn't happened since since Yalta.

Until Trump they were always foes, now supportive of each other....

Obviously.

Won't happen.

That is what shall have to be negotiated

Russia is absolutely not going to back off

European countries with all their bluster and talk will do very little but say we are behind you Ukraine and supply at a cost weapons you think any European country will take on or collectively take on Russia

Russia has played a long game with extremely powerful allies China, India and Iran all heavily reliant on Russia’s resources and now the US it been no secret that Trump admires Putin or likely Putin has something in him

Europe looked away in 2014 this was coming this didn’t start in 2022 Europe fucked up and now this is the cost and despite what Europeans feel most of the world have no interest in getting involved

UK is most definitely a key diplomatic party in all of this. Starmer’s role is pivotal.

Exactly what DH and I keep saying. Trump says Putin wants peace. Since Putin started it, I strongly suspect that if his troops stopped shooting and dropping bombs, the killing would stop. If they then withdrew back to Russia, it would definitely stop. Why should Ukraine give up any land to achieve this? Some sort of mineral deal with the USA in exchange for the support they've received isn't necessarily a bad idea but it is a bit rich to ask for payment for something after you've already freely given it away.

No, some are just useful idiots.

@Donotpanicoknowpanic

I'm going to try to put this in words you can understand.

There's a relatively small and frail child in a playground (called Ukraine) going about its day, doing no harm to anyone.

A much older and bigger child (Russia) goes over to Ukraine and says "I want you to be my bitch and do everything I tell you to do and give me your lunch money or I'll hit you."

Ukraine says no. Russia hits Ukraine and keeps hitting Ukraine, violently.

Other children in the playground (including UK, Europe and the USA) fashion a shield of sorts to protect Ukraine from Russia's blows, occasionally Ukraine is able to throw a few punches at Russia as well. The lunch money remains in Ukraine's pocket.

USA then says "in order to stop being beaten up Ukraine, why don't you just say yes to being Russia's bitch and give ME your lunch money, or we will step back and let Russia hit you even harder."

The problem with this is, Russia tells lies. Even if they claim they will stop bullying if Ukraine agrees to be their bitch, they probably won't and all the other children in the playground are Russia's potential next victim if Russia stops hitting Ukraine and gets Ukraine to join Russia's gang.

Also, Ukraine doesn't want to be Russia's bitch, and they also want to keep their lunch money for, you know, food and stuff.

Plus, Ukraine doesn't want to thank USA for their offer as it's a pretty shit offer. They are essentially saying that "USA sides with the bully and Ukraine shouldn't have their own lunch money".

What would be best in this scenario is if Russia just stopped being a bully, grew the fuck up, looked down on the bloody, near-corpse of Ukraine and thought "this is horrible, why am I hurting an innocent?"

There's no easy way to make that happen, but backing down to a bully very rarely makes them less of a bully.

Do you understand now?

“Russia has played a long game with extremely powerful allies China, India and Iran all heavily reliant on Russia’s resources and now the US it been no secret that Trump admires Putin or likely Putin has something in him”

That is bollocks. They are all playing each other in an intricate power game - all wary of each other.

If Putin was the slightest bit interested in peace he wouldn’t have bombed a packed hospital overnight in Kharkiv. Putin is a vile war criminal and Trump is no more than his minion.

Have you seen the latest polls that say more than half of people who left Ukraine in the last 2 years have absolutely no intention of going ‘home’. These people have moved on, they don’t care about their own country so why should anyone else?

Isn't this rather dehumanising? Claiming Ukrainians have no emotional link with their homeland?

More likely, they don't want to return while the country is at war, or they know their homes have been destroyed or are in an occupied part of the country.

This post is what it would look like if Neville Chamberlain were catapulted into 2025 and also suddenly didn't know how to use full stops.

You missed out USA also being bullied by Russia because Putin has some serious shit over Trump. #Krasnov

I think it might come down to how you define "the war"

Some people see a contained war between Russia and Ukraine. I can see how it would be beneficial to end a war like this.

Some people see it as a battle front within a larger war between Russia and Europe. To those people this looks more like conceding a strategic territory in the opening stages of an ongoing conflict.

I don't know which version is correct - only history will tell. However, going by recent past history it seems more likely to be the second.

But what happens when Ukraine. Go "okay, have the land you've taken".

What stops Russia going, well fuck it, we'll have the lot?

That's what Ukraine wants...the security of saying "if we give you this, then you can have no more".

Where is this going to end? Russia are not going to give back to Ukraine the areas they have already taken - so where do we go from there? Does the war just drag on for decades with Russia inching their way further and further forwards? What is going to happen when Putin dies and someone even worse takes his place (because from what I've read that is almost certainly going to be the case). There are no good solutions because Putin can't be trusted and it's impossible to predict what his next move might be but he also has a huge population he can force to fight for him and keep fighting for as long as is needed.

Trump is a complete liability in the whole thing only caring about what precious resources he can get his greedy, grubby little hands on.

Between the narcissistic megalomaniacs ruling Russia, China and the US, Europe and especially Ukraine are in a really poor position.

Voting in Trump was just the worst thing that the Americans could have done, the only person he cares about is himself and lining his own nasty little pockets.

I read someone this morning suggesting that Trump doesn't think in terms of geopolitics or nations or even necessarily political parties or ideologies but is primarily a personalistic politician. He personally likes Putin, he doesn't personally like Zelenskyy. And in that frame it makes sense and aligns with what seems to be a very narcissistic personality - the world only matters as it relates to him.

What happened last night was an attempted mugging. The bullying started when their mark had the temerity to fight back.

Mafia protection rackets have nothing on these guys.

For this to happen (Russia pushed back and ALL of Ukraine secure) it will mean Europe has to fight( including UK). That will be WW3.

There's not much leverage. Three leaders have asked for security but US can walk instead.

Zelenskyy has said he needs the US.

And you think Putin will stop when he’s got Ukraine? Yeah, right.

Peace is not appeasement, surrender or capitulation to bullies. Unless Trump is going to kick Putin out and hand Ukraine freely over to its own self-government, Zelenskyy does not need to do a deal with him.

Diplomacy is key in these situations. It’s not just the message (even if you agree with it, which many don’t), but how it’s delivered. No diplomat has ever achieved their goal with bullying, humiliating, patronising, colonialist clap trap.

One day, Trump and Vance won’t be able to revel in their power. They’ll be fragile and unwell and need the empathy and kindness of others. There are times in life when money and power count for nothing. It’s only other people who can give you dignity. Karma’s a bitch.

Appeasement doesn’t work. Neville Chamberlain fell into the same trap in 1938.

Russia will keep going, especially as Trump is now on their side.