There is no dignity in alcoholism

[Emerald0897]

And I'm fucking tired of the selfishness of it. AIBU?

Old guy on the tube today, totally reeking of alcohol, staggering everywhere and then actually exposing himself in order to piss all around the place, so everyone nearby had to scarper because it was actually in danger of soaking people. Utterly disgusting. He then fell out of the doors onto the platform at the next station.

It's been reported to TFL staff and the British Transport Police.

I've had two other alcoholics in my extended family, both of whom have caused massive disruption.

I know we are supposed to have pity for people's mental health issues but honestly, the impact on others is just awful. It's so antisocial.

I don't feel pity for the guy today. I feel utter disgust that he showed everyone his penis, and thankful my kids weren't with me.

AIBU?

She didn't say it was.

This thread is so disheartening. Sorry to see you’re getting a hard time, OP.

The way women are expected to have compassion and understanding for these disgusting men…
Women need to say NO!

Custody isnt a safe option and the services you mention have been cut back so far there isnt the support available.

Addiction is an illness - would you be this offended if it was someone with mental health issues doing this? Keeping in mind that people with addiction do experience impact on their cognitive function.

If it's so unpleasant for you to have to witness this then spare a thought for how unpleasant it must be to actually live it.

I have alcoholism in my family. My family member isn't at the point of staggering about and pissing on people on the tube but they have embarrassed and injured themselves on many occasions due to drink. They know it's wrong but they don't stop because that's what addiction is. It goes past being a choice and becomes a dependency and a way of life. It's a shit life though and it steals your health, dignity and family.

It's very complex and while I can see that it wasn't a nice thing to encounter, my actual sympathy goes to the person who has found themselves in such a dark place that this is their life.

Maybe you arent suited to public transport where everyday there is the liklihood of experiencing something that you dont want to

No they wouldn't. You're getting some pathetic comments from posters who want to have a pop at you because you were upset at what you'd seen. I don't believe that any of them, that any person actually, wouldn't be but, this is AIBU, home of the twats...

For whatever reason somebody is an addict it's possible to feel disgust at what they inflict on other people as well as pity for their situation. I had addicts in the family and I certainly don't wouldn't judge you for your view, I'm sorry that you had to put up with that, nobody should have to. Nobody.

Maybe the problem isn't the OP? It sounds not far off telling women not to wear short skirts in case they get attacked. I don't think OP is being particularly fussy in not wanting to be subject to this behaviour. Can't imagine many people being comfortable in that situation. Maybe the problem is the behaviour and society's tolerance of the behaviour in the name of compassion.

Couldn’t agree more. I have a horrific life story, I’m sure many of us do, and I don’t spend my days lying in puddles of my own wee.

For goodness sake! A drunk man pissing all over the place is not something most people want to see. This is misplaced "compassion".

So the traveling public must put up with commuting in a pissoir now, because 'compassion'.

People should be up in arms about the environment they are forced to navigate. The lack of personal safety, the lack of common decency, the foul language, the noise of personal devices, the dirt, the vomit, the lewd remarks directed to women and girls - a small number of people ruining public spaces for everyone.

Sympathy is a choice. It's not an imperative you can force on others or guilt others into.

@mathanxiety what a strange comment. I haven't tried to force or guilt anyone into anything. I've written about my own experience, feelings and opinions.

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread but I think using ethics helps me when I look at your original post OP.

What you saw was horrible and disgusting - absolutely, it would have really distressed me and I would have changed carriage I'm sure.

But society doesn't promise anyone that they have superior rights to exist than anyone else. It's just how it is.

Other citizens have rights to exist even those who invade our space with their chaos, misery, illness and lack of control.

There are societies which try to take all the people with problems and get rid of them. That was part of what happened in Germany in the 30s; everyone needed to behave perfectly. I'm sure you wouldn't suggest that was a good approach to chaotic and very sick people.

That man might have had a very serious mental illness in the first instance and alcoholism is a comorbidity not the original problem. It would be impossible to tell from his outward behaviour, where it all started.

The social and political structures that allow this man to freely move about and pee on innocent commuters is a direct result of living in a democracy.

I genuinely believe that.

Using your daughters danger of seeing such a thing - I get it - but this is their country as much as his. He is part of this society and maybe his misery illustrates that not everyone achieves a tidy attractive inoffensive life.

Some people fail and it's hard to know exactly why because the causes are multifactoral and complex. Also solutions vary between political positions. And solutions are very expensive.

How does any of us know whether our children could end up in a terrible self destructive state?

I would rather live in a democracy than in a world which pretends it's all the fault of the person who appears chaotic. That is too simplistic. The fact that some people pull themselves up out of chaos and then become millionaires is not proof that everyone could do it if they had the right apps and worked harder.

No society has ever created just winners except for fictional (and terrifying) ones.

Please don't tell me what I want. What I want is to be able to travel home in peace without having to run away from a man who is exposed and pissing at people. That is all. I don't want him to be 'punished'. I just don't want him anywhere near me.

100% OP. I have compassion for addicts who want to help themselves, but are struggling to get on the right path. However, there's a good number who just don't care and have no intention of ever changing even if they were offered all the help in the world.

I own a city centre shop and there's a good number of addicts who still manage to be somewhat respectful. They'll try to shoplift and when I ask them to return the items, they do with an apology, it's easy to feel compassion for them. There's also a good number who will be abusive towards me (a small women) and won't think twice of fighting back when I take the goods back from them. I'm sure a lot of posters on here would say I should just let them steal my stock, as the poor mites have less then me. The problem with that is other shops have gone out of business because they tell their mates it's an easy place to shoplift from! It's not essential items like food they're stealing before anyone tells me they're starving and just looking to eat.

This is a brilliant posts and explains everything I was trying to say about OPs lack of control over the situation and society in general.

to suggest otherwise just suggests a complete lack of understanding of the above

Yes, lovely. And then what would you like to see happen?

It’s not just women who should have compassion. All humans should. But for the grace of God go all of us. The sanctimony and judgement in some of the posts on this thread are appalling.

I'm offended?

I'm fine with anybody who has done something unacceptable, unhygeinic or unsafe being removed from that place to somewhere they actually have a possibility of accessing help. He wasn't going to find that using his bodily fluids as a weapon/threat, after all.

This is such a wonderful , thoughtful post and why despite all of the argumentative guff on here, sometimes Mumsnet and AIBU can be a wonderfu place. You win post of the week for me @wildfellhall

I’d rather the limited space in prisons was used on murderers rapists and paedos who post a far more significant threat to society.

more intervention from the nhs is needed but sadly anything that involves something that can been seen as self inflicted is deemed unworthy of help by many

Whilst I agree in theory with this, it seems somewhat idealistic. How would you apply it to a situation where someone's drunken behaviour is directly impacting someone's ability to earn a living? Should I turn a blind eye to people repeatedly trying to steal from my shop, knowing that the problem will get worse if word gets around that it's an easy place to shoplift. Am I morally correct to take my stock back or do I let them steal it? The law won't intervene because the amount is too low for the Police to bother with.

Everyone has their own emotional baggage to deal with in life. None of us ask to be born, but we still have to find our way in society. Some people will have experienced far more trauma than the man in the OP, but won't be going around pissing at people, because it's reprehensible behaviour. It's not about expecting people to behave perfectly, of course everyone is flawed, but I think most people would like the bar to be set higher than this! If noone speaks up in these situations because the man may be ill and they don't want to be seen as being judgemental, then that also means he potentially falls through the cracks for support for social services etc.

You’re not being unreasonable OP, no one should be stinking and pissing in public, it’s disgusting. But..
My father was an alcoholic, he ended up laying in the road drunk and was killed by a hit and run driver. He was always a heavy drinker and in the navy, but I believe he went right downhill after a specific incident in the fire service, he’d probably be diagnosed with PTSD if he were still alive.
I had been resuscitated twice by the time I was 17 due to alcohol poisoning…I’m now sober but it’s a constant battle. So I do have sympathy. I think of my dad laying in the road like a piece of crap drunk to everyone else, but he was once a good man, who worked hard and saved lives, my dad and all these people are someone to somebody 😔

I am sorry to hear of your father 💐

Hiddidlyho

The solutions for this kind of behaviour involve a complicated cooperation between mental health services, social services, housing and policing and charities. To support someone with these issues is extremely difficult as you may not ever have their full cooperation.

I am no expert but it is my understanding that funding for these services have been cut pretty brutally and this may be a direct result.

Inter service cooperation takes expertise and commitment from the top. I don't sense that commitment is there, as it is, of course, expensive.

I don't have an answer to your question as I think there is no simple answer.

I believe that there are winners and losers in our society and there is an argument which says the fortunate are partly there at the cost of the unfortunate. I'm not saying it's a perfect argument but I bet if we all knew that man's story we would go 'ahhh that explains it' even if it doesn't excuse it.

That incident needs to be reported and the services will figure out how to respond given their resources- that's all we can do.

Imprisoning him is very expensive. And committing him to an institution (do they still exist?) is also very expensive. These are the choices our governments make on our behalf.

Me too.