There is no dignity in alcoholism

[Emerald0897]

And I'm fucking tired of the selfishness of it. AIBU?

Old guy on the tube today, totally reeking of alcohol, staggering everywhere and then actually exposing himself in order to piss all around the place, so everyone nearby had to scarper because it was actually in danger of soaking people. Utterly disgusting. He then fell out of the doors onto the platform at the next station.

It's been reported to TFL staff and the British Transport Police.

I've had two other alcoholics in my extended family, both of whom have caused massive disruption.

I know we are supposed to have pity for people's mental health issues but honestly, the impact on others is just awful. It's so antisocial.

I don't feel pity for the guy today. I feel utter disgust that he showed everyone his penis, and thankful my kids weren't with me.

AIBU?

The council opened an alcoholic half way house near me in covid (thank god, closed since). Before then I was one of the professional compassion merchants (😁) mentioned upthread. But that got rid of it all. Horrific men fighting non stop in the street, pissing everywhere at all times, shitting in front gardens, shouting abuse at me and my children for no reason, robbing every shop blind - they were so appalling. Honestly don’t know what the solution is as they will never work or get better as far as I can see (all in their 50s) so what we have to put up witn this (as a community) for ever? I understand the OP as a howl of despair about it all as I have felt it too many times, as I walked to my door with chaos around. I hope all of you judging the OP never have the council move one of these houses into your street.

When you're wondering when we as a community stop putting up with alcoholics, what exactly do you suggest we do with them?

I genuinely am wondering. I don’t know.

Thank you, exactly.

I can't believe I am being told I should feel sorry for him.

I literally had to run away because a drunk man, significantly bigger/taller/heavier than myself, was lurching towards me with his dick out and piss spraying towards me.

Clearly it isn’t ok but you don’t know why he’s an alcoholic.

If they are displaying this sort of antisocial behaviour, they need to be locked up somewhere. Prison, care home, secure hospital, I don't really care, not my problem to solve. But someone where they are not hurting or harming others.

This is such a weird thread. Yes he exposed his penis. If he had been arrested what do you think would happen? Nothing.
Thousands of people commit crimes every day, you can’t stop them by being outraged by them.

of course that man never wanted to be a chronic alcoholic who pissed on the tube. No one ever wants that.

alcoholism is a common trauma response and shame is a very big part of what keeps people drinking.

you can be irritated by him of course, but being too emotionally immature to understand addiction isn’t something to be proud of either.

This exactly

It's not 'emotionally immature' to just want to travel home in peace without getting pissed on by a drunk man. I don't care about his trauma or his addiction. It's easy to pity people from a distance. Not so much when you're literally running away from them.

We live in a free country so people are allowed to be alcoholics. You’re obviously aware that people are rarely imprisoned for anti social behaviour as in the scheme of crimes it’s not a serious one.

I don’t know anyone who would support the sectioning of someone just because they got their penis out and pissed on the tube but maybe it’s another example of not understanding society very well

RE the exposure - he would likely be arrested, left to dry out in a police cell then fined. Maybe referred to alcohol services or social work.

No sex offenders register or anything like that as there was no chance he did it for sexual gratification (as you would find with flashers etc).

Life means living with other people. You don’t get to control people to make sure they never upset or inconvenience you. Welcome to life.

I went from being a Lib Dem to never voting for left wing parties again because of people like this

we don’t have to put up with this. We don’t have to see men shutting in the street and pissing on trains and ignore it, patting ourselves on the back for being emotionally mature enough just to leave them to it, not even arresting them because - shrug - nothing would happen. there must be other ways of dealing with it, being compassionate but stopping them negatively affecting every single other person around.

No one has ever successfully stopped this.

how would you do it?

I don't think you should feel sorry for him specifically as this sounds like an intimidating situation so absolutely my first feeling too would be panic/fear/relief my children weren't there.

It's the broader stuff about alcoholics all being selfish that I'm disagreeing with.

"What you witnessed wasn't pleasant op."

What an understatement.

I pity them but I'm also disgusted. It's self inflicted, and people are told it's addictive and to be responsible all the time. It actually takes a long time of abuse (which would have been a choice) to get to that level of alcohol addiction (unlike strong drugs).

He should not have been allowed to enter the station to begin with. When you have train rails with electric running through them, he is a safety risk to himself and anybody he might (accidentally) bump into.

when they are this bad, I’d lock them up in a care home type situation

I get the anger OP, I really do. A family member died far before their time because of alcoholism. I actually can't feel any empathy for them anymore. I just feel deep anger at how badly they affected their children and a huge sense of relief that they're now gone and can't hurt themselves or anyone else anymore. And I feel guilt for feeling that way but dealing with an alcoholic wears you down completely.

I'm not saying it's a helpful way to feel..... but it's understandable. I'd have been furious seeing that too.

Because you seem particular upset about seeing his penis rather than him urinating in public

You're getting an unwarranted pasting here, OP.

It's ok until practically every time you set foot in a train you find people slumped over in a catatonic state because they've been doing tranq, and you have to step over people out cold on the stairs to the exit. Or you can't find a seat that hasn't been pissed on. Or you're held at knife or gunpoint and robbed because someone has to have money for drugs. I live in a city where people are shot because of addiction. Who to feel more sorry for? Ooh, difficult...

Yes, society needs to spend millions more on addiction services.
Sure, all these people were once kids and who knows what horrors they've been through.
No, I do not feel sorry for them to the point where I'm going to accept the negatives they bring to the environment everyone else has to function in.

Well yeah, that bit is particularly upsetting as I have been sexually assaulted in the past. Are you genuinely saying I have no right to feel upset that I was just travelling home and suddenly had to see a random man's penis? Is that acceptable?

I believe I have made it abundantly clear that I am disgusted that he was pissing everywhere.

Agree 100%

How would that work? It’s such a foolish suggestion I don’t know where to start with how ridiculous it is

I imagine there would be public outrage if carehomes were funded for people who so many have no sympathy for

Honestly I think the real problem is with UK attitudes towards alcohol generally. So many people think drinking to a harmful level is entirely normal and get annoyed if told it's unhealthy, complain about efforts to raise the price of alcohol - which is much, much cheaper now than in previous decades - and laugh at drunken mishaps. In reality there is a huge amount of alcohol related health problems & crime. It's not just alcoholics - it feels like the norm in the UK is to over drink. Politicians need to ramp up alcohol taxes massively. It costs us way more in NHS use alone than it makes in tax revenue.

https://britishlivertrust.org.uk/27-4-billion-cost-of-alcohol-harm-in-england-every-year/