There is no dignity in alcoholism

[Emerald0897]

And I'm fucking tired of the selfishness of it. AIBU?

Old guy on the tube today, totally reeking of alcohol, staggering everywhere and then actually exposing himself in order to piss all around the place, so everyone nearby had to scarper because it was actually in danger of soaking people. Utterly disgusting. He then fell out of the doors onto the platform at the next station.

It's been reported to TFL staff and the British Transport Police.

I've had two other alcoholics in my extended family, both of whom have caused massive disruption.

I know we are supposed to have pity for people's mental health issues but honestly, the impact on others is just awful. It's so antisocial.

I don't feel pity for the guy today. I feel utter disgust that he showed everyone his penis, and thankful my kids weren't with me.

AIBU?

I think it's easier to have sympathy from afar than when you're directly affected by an alcoholics behaviour.

Yes, I'd be ok with that.

@Emerald0897 You've lost me now, sorry. Not sure how punishing the poor bastard would do anything other than scratch the itch of your anger at your family members.

He probably has cognitive impairment because of long term alcohol use.

It's a shame that there's no truly effective treatment for alcoholism and addiction available and that there's no safe place for people who are addicted. We used to see it all the time in our old area, I just told my kids not to look or stare.

That could be any of us.

And criminalizing this does nothing to help.

So if a guy (not drunk) gets his penis out on the tube and pisses at people... what do you think should happen? Why is it different in this case? He was drunk. That doesn't mean the effect on the people around him was any different.

You’ve posted it in AIBU - as if thinking “alcoholism has no dignity” could possibly be an “unreasonable” position.

You may as well say “hens lay eggs, AIBU?”

You saw a drunk homeless man urinating in public. So far, so antisocial. But your anger seems disproportionate to what occurred.

You'd rather that than he be taken to a safe warm place, given food, medication and a comfortable safe bed for the night?

@Emerald0897 If a guy who isn't drunk and therefore (presumably) not cognitively impaired, gets his knob out to take a piss on public transport and in full view of other passengers then yes, he should be arrested. But you said this guy stank of booze and implied you thought he was an alcoholic (you compared him to family members). That's a different metric by which we should measure his behaviour, IMO.

Addiction is incredibly selfish and negatively affects all those around the addict. Lots of people have shit lives and awful things have happened to them. But using it as an excuse to pay the shit forward is not ok. I really wish we would stop tolerating it - it is very much a misplaced kindness.

Yep, very unpleasant.

A drunk man sat opposite me on the tube, openly fiddling with his erect penis and staring at me with the most awful expression on his face. It was disgusting.

I changed carriage and then he found a couple of other women to abuse.😡

I reported it to the station manager, but not sure what came of it.

Are the two mutually exclusive? I'm not suggesting he should be chained up outside in the freezing cold ffs.

But do I think being drunk excuses his behaviour? No.

So being an alcoholic (which is my presumption) excuses him in some way? Why?

I'm sorry this happened to you.

There are lots of people on here suggesting they deserve sympathy. It's easy to say that when you haven't been witness to it.

I'm married to an alcoholic. If I wasn't keeping a roof over his head, keeping him clean and generally minimising the embarrassment for all concerned, he would be shambling around the streets too. I lost any sympathy I had with him years ago. He has chosen over and over to put his own selfish wants above all else. Every day he chooses himself. He has a great line in sob stories but truth be told, it's all in his own head.

Seriously, who the fuck are you to judge another person. And no pity, you disgust me.

You turned your nasty judgmental nose up and went home, to a safe and probably warm loving home i bet.

He doesnt have that. Whether through his own fault or not. his life is fucking shit, and he'll probably die in shit.

There is no dignitary in any addiction.

I agree - the op is clearly venting. Whether she feels compassion or not is unlikely to have any impact whatsoever on this man’s life, so I don’t think she needs to be made to feel her reaction is wrong.

It’s a good reminder to those of us who don’t have experience of it (me included) that alcoholism takes a heavy toll on family members too.

There's a lot of people on here all very protective and defensive of this man. I'm sure if they'd been pissed on or flashed at they wouldn't be feeling quite the same.

Because alcohol abuse long term affects the brain, people can't always control their behaviour, some people call it a type of dementia. How would you feel is someone with dementia behaved like this.

He'd have a safe, warm place, be given food, have access to medical treatment and a safe (I don't know about comfortable, but it's quite likely to be cleaner) bed for the night and then be in a position to access referrals for treatment or admitted to hospital for a controlled detox if he were arrested.

Actually no. I went home upset at having to see a stranger's penis when I have been sexually assaulted in the past. Only now - later - am I really angry at having to see that.

You know very little about me - I would suggest you are actually rather judgemental yourself.

Because he was not in control of his faculties. He needs a shelter and a detox, not prison. A sober person taking a piss on the Tube is very different and is deliberately offending.

Drunks are destructive, abusive, gaslighting and harmful. They are also destroying themselves and in thrall to substances they can’t control.

You are projecting your personal emotional baggage onto a stranger at rock bottom.

It's self-inflicted. Nobody is forcing people to drink. Nobody forced them to start. They do have a choice to stop, hard as it may be. It isn't the same as dementia.

Addiction is selfish? Its an illness. Mental and physical that needs help.

An excuse? What a cruel thing to say.

You are obv lucky enough to not suffer from it.

But dont diminish it compared to other illnesses.

Its an addiction, what dont people understand.

He was drunk. That doesn't mean the effect on the people around him was any different.

It does mean the effect is different, context and intent are important. Intent is very important when determining if something is a crime and determining appropriate consequences. Intent is really important in justice processes.

If someone does something on purpose, to upset/frighten/offend people, that is different to doing something when unaware (whether through drink or another reason such as confusion due to health issues).

Being drunk doesn't make it ok, but it is different to deliberately doing something to someone.