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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

There is no dignity in alcoholism

244 replies

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 18:34

And I'm fucking tired of the selfishness of it. AIBU?

Old guy on the tube today, totally reeking of alcohol, staggering everywhere and then actually exposing himself in order to piss all around the place, so everyone nearby had to scarper because it was actually in danger of soaking people. Utterly disgusting. He then fell out of the doors onto the platform at the next station.

It's been reported to TFL staff and the British Transport Police.

I've had two other alcoholics in my extended family, both of whom have caused massive disruption.

I know we are supposed to have pity for people's mental health issues but honestly, the impact on others is just awful. It's so antisocial.

I don't feel pity for the guy today. I feel utter disgust that he showed everyone his penis, and thankful my kids weren't with me.

AIBU?

OP posts:
MissMoneyFairy · 27/02/2025 21:01

Blackcordoroys · 27/02/2025 20:45

It won’t solve his addiction. It would solve other people being pissed on for a night, and solve the cleaners having to clean all the tube carriages, and solve the tourists stopping coming to London because it’s so disgusting, and stop any more women and children having to witness it

He won't be the only drunk person getting on a train or wandering the streets falling over, urinating, pooing, being sick, the police haven't got the time and resources to arrest and lock them all up. Station staff can't stop Every drunk person getting into the platform, alcohol is so easy to get hold of, cheap drinks, happy hours, boredom, trauma, depression, there's so many reasons people rely on alcohol including our discarded military veterans.

AquaPeer · 27/02/2025 21:02

Blackcordoroys · 27/02/2025 20:59

I refuse to believe that most of you would keep these attitudes if you actually encountered alcoholics every day

if you came home from work, as I did, to find two of them fighting by your garden gate so you couldn’t get in your house, and one screams at you as you try to edge by; as they drop all their junk in your garden; as you walk up and the street stinks of piss; as they attack each other with bricks left over from your neighbour building a garden wall; and this goes on over and over again for months - i refuse to believe you would all sadly shake your heads and imagine the sad lives they must have had, and forebear from contacting the council or police as you can’t imagine making their lives any harder

Edited

What would be the point in having a 6 page conversation where the only viewpoint mirrored YOUR EXACT life experience of alcoholics?!

how can anyone not understand that people have different views shaped by different life experiences?

there are some really weird comments on this thread (and I agree - weird title)

ItGhoul · 27/02/2025 21:10

How many more times are you going to tell us that you saw his penis? We get it.

If it was seeing his dick that was the main thing you object to, I would like to point out that plenty of sober men expose themselves on public transport, with a very different motive from that of an old man too drunk to even know where he was. I’d focus your ire on the actual sex criminals out there, rather than those afflicted with a horrific addiction that almost certainly causes more suffering to them than it does to you.

WillIEverBeOk · 27/02/2025 21:12

MissMoneyFairy · 27/02/2025 20:27

Because you seem particular upset about seeing his penis rather than him urinating in public

Show quote history

She said why, @MissMoneyFairy

I went home upset at having to see a stranger's penis when I have been sexually assaulted in the past. Only now - later - am I really angry at having to see that.

FiddlinIt · 27/02/2025 21:16

YANBU OP.

my mum was an alcoholic and left a trail of destruction on her wake

Strangerthanfictions · 27/02/2025 21:16

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 18:38

So it's fine that he was just exposing himself in public?

Show quote history

Do you think this is the life he wanted and has deliberately carved out for himself?

Bunny2607 · 27/02/2025 21:17

As someone currently dealing with an alcoholic ex in hospital with jaundice and trying to coparent our 9 year old autistic son i have absolutely zero sympathy or consideration. Yes its an illness but the chaos and anxiety it causes and the person has no idea of the damage they are doing.

Original poster
Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 21:18

Strangerthanfictions · 27/02/2025 21:16

Do you think this is the life he wanted and has deliberately carved out for himself?

Show quote history

Why are you expecting me to care, though? I am fully aware of the havoc alcoholics wreak on those around them. And today, I wanted to travel home in peace without being pissed on. Which I only narrowly avoided. You know, it was actually frightening. It IS frightening, being in a confined space with a man who is out of control and you are trying to get away from him. Why am I supposed to pity him?

OP posts:
WillIEverBeOk · 27/02/2025 21:19

@aniloD You're obviously not a sexual assault or rape survivor.

Mrsdyna · 27/02/2025 21:20

You're getting a rough time OP but I agree with you. We all have demons but we don't have a right to make that everyone else's problem.

CandelabraCat · 27/02/2025 21:21

mathanxiety · 27/02/2025 20:48

It would at least keep him from falling on an electrified rail or down a long flight of stairs.

I'm sure anyone who is a paramedic would have all sorts of positive thoughts on the value of drunk tanks as opposed to loading mangled and bloody bodies into ambulances.

Show quote history

True (although obviously recovery somewhere other than a cell would be preferable). I don’t think that’s quite what OP had in mind though. They just want punishment.

Original poster
Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 21:23

CandelabraCat · 27/02/2025 21:21

True (although obviously recovery somewhere other than a cell would be preferable). I don’t think that’s quite what OP had in mind though. They just want punishment.

Show quote history

Please don't tell me what I want. What I want is to be able to travel home in peace without having to run away from a man who is exposed and pissing at people. That is all. I don't want him to be 'punished'. I just don't want him anywhere near me.

OP posts:
MrsSkylerWhite · 27/02/2025 21:25

You have no idea of the circumstances that have led him to this.

I try not to make assumptions. I regularly chat with homeless people in our area. You would probably be surprised at some of their backstories.

Maybe just thank your lucky stars that you don’t have a chaotic life and get on with your day?

JacquesHarlow · 27/02/2025 21:25

I really don't mean to sound snippy @Emerald0897 but what on earth do you want from this thread?

You have several specific factors (not unique, but perhaps unusual in combination) which means you reacted to both the drunken man's antics, and his exposed penis, with more sensitivity and a more powerful reaction than some of us would.

That's fine - I totally respect that and am sorry on both counts that you had to experience either.

but then to write a generic blast on the concept of dignity in alcoholism, it just doesn't tally...

Yes alcoholics can be wretched. But the problem I think for you is that they're more visible in cities. Statistically, they're actually more numerous in rural areas. But you therefore don't see them as much.

My point is, this happened on the London tube. As in, you travel in London, which means you're statistically way more likely to see this stuff.

Are the drunks suddenly going to evaporate because you called out their selfishness? I'd argue there's going to be more in the next 10 to 20 years.

So again, what do you want from this thread that would make you feel happier about other's reactions?

sidebirds · 27/02/2025 21:25

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 18:38

So it's fine that he was just exposing himself in public?

Show quote history

yes, everyone thinks it's great 🙄

JacquesHarlow · 27/02/2025 21:26

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 21:23

Please don't tell me what I want. What I want is to be able to travel home in peace without having to run away from a man who is exposed and pissing at people. That is all. I don't want him to be 'punished'. I just don't want him anywhere near me.

Show quote history

What I want is to be able to travel home in peace without having to run away from a man who is exposed and pissing at people.

All of us women should be entitled to this. All of us in society should be entitled to this.

But realistically this isn't going to happen. This is London, people are wretched and selfish and from all ends of the mental health spectrum.

How are you going to try and control your environment to preclude any likelihood of your journeys being disturbed by such behaviour?

Mum2jenny · 27/02/2025 21:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NameChanges123 · 27/02/2025 21:27

SnoopyPajamas · 27/02/2025 20:41

I'm the child of an alcoholic and it always surprises me to realise not everyone is absolutely disgusted by it. Reading through the thread, I think it's because those who haven't lived with an alcoholic have a rosy view of what they're like. They're picturing some poor soul quietly destroying themselves in anguish. Maybe stumbling around lost or doing themselves an injury. It's easy to have compassion for that. But those of us who have more up close and personal experience with it know just how nasty, selfish, and often violent alcoholics become, and that's what we think of first, every time we're faced with a drunk.

We also know how self-pitying and in denial they tend to be about their behaviour, and how the world often infantilises them and reinforces a narrative that they have no control over their actions. When the truth is, they're the only ones who can choose to stop, and every day they choose to keep drinking instead. It doesn't matter what the reasons behind the choice are. It's still a choice they're making. And the victims of that choice have the right to feel disgusted by it. We have the right not to be a font of pity for alcoholics anymore.

I understand your gut reaction here, OP. The smell of alcohol in someone's pores, and being around drunk people, triggers the same response in me if I'm honest

This. I've closely known two alcoholics. Both grew up in good homes.

For every alcoholic ruining their own life, there will be a larger group (family and friends), whose lives are also being totally ruined by the selfishness of their alcoholic loved one. And while the alcoholic always has the excuse "I don't remember what I did [to you]" their poor victims are often left helpless, hurt and totally reduced by what they've endured.

So, totally agree with you, OP. My main sympathies are with the innocent victims.

Strangerthanfictions · 27/02/2025 21:29

Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 21:18

Why are you expecting me to care, though? I am fully aware of the havoc alcoholics wreak on those around them. And today, I wanted to travel home in peace without being pissed on. Which I only narrowly avoided. You know, it was actually frightening. It IS frightening, being in a confined space with a man who is out of control and you are trying to get away from him. Why am I supposed to pity him?

Show quote history

Did I ask you to pity him? I think you need to look at what's going on for you in this scenario rather than him and address what you can actually control here if you want to move forward and be less angry and upset, the only bit you can make a difference in is your own response to other peoples mistakes, misfortunes or thoughtlessness as you characterise it. My alcoholic mother has caused me unspeakable hurt and the only thing I can do about it is control my own actions and responses, she nearly ruined my life before I realised I needed to stop letting her.

Retirementsoon · 27/02/2025 21:30

I agree op.

Original poster
Emerald0897 · 27/02/2025 21:30

JacquesHarlow · 27/02/2025 21:25

I really don't mean to sound snippy @Emerald0897 but what on earth do you want from this thread?

You have several specific factors (not unique, but perhaps unusual in combination) which means you reacted to both the drunken man's antics, and his exposed penis, with more sensitivity and a more powerful reaction than some of us would.

That's fine - I totally respect that and am sorry on both counts that you had to experience either.

but then to write a generic blast on the concept of dignity in alcoholism, it just doesn't tally...

Yes alcoholics can be wretched. But the problem I think for you is that they're more visible in cities. Statistically, they're actually more numerous in rural areas. But you therefore don't see them as much.

My point is, this happened on the London tube. As in, you travel in London, which means you're statistically way more likely to see this stuff.

Are the drunks suddenly going to evaporate because you called out their selfishness? I'd argue there's going to be more in the next 10 to 20 years.

So again, what do you want from this thread that would make you feel happier about other's reactions?

I wanted a vent. About today. About being forced to see something I didn't want to see. About having to run away. About the damage caused to my family by two particular people with an alcohol problem. About the selfishness of alcoholism and the damage it causes to other people. About men and their selfishness and thoughtlessness in general. And I wanted to get my feelings out because I'm actually pretty upset and this afternoon, I was frightened.

So here I am, in the fight club that is AIBU. And I myself am wondering what I am getting out of this too. It was probably a mistake to post, but here we are, and it's certainly been... interesting, hearing people's points of view.

OP posts:
Retirementsoon · 27/02/2025 21:31

I would not like to encounter that myself.

ImJustFineTYVM · 27/02/2025 21:31

There is no dignity in addiction. I agree.

There's also no dignity in being judgmental.

There is a lot of dignity in kindness.

Strangerthanfictions · 27/02/2025 21:31

ImJustFineTYVM · 27/02/2025 21:31

There is no dignity in addiction. I agree.

There's also no dignity in being judgmental.

There is a lot of dignity in kindness.

For the win ❤️

JacquesHarlow · 27/02/2025 21:32

ImJustFineTYVM · 27/02/2025 21:31

There is no dignity in addiction. I agree.

There's also no dignity in being judgmental.

There is a lot of dignity in kindness.

Beautiful post.

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