There is no dignity in alcoholism

[Emerald0897]

And I'm fucking tired of the selfishness of it. AIBU?

Old guy on the tube today, totally reeking of alcohol, staggering everywhere and then actually exposing himself in order to piss all around the place, so everyone nearby had to scarper because it was actually in danger of soaking people. Utterly disgusting. He then fell out of the doors onto the platform at the next station.

It's been reported to TFL staff and the British Transport Police.

I've had two other alcoholics in my extended family, both of whom have caused massive disruption.

I know we are supposed to have pity for people's mental health issues but honestly, the impact on others is just awful. It's so antisocial.

I don't feel pity for the guy today. I feel utter disgust that he showed everyone his penis, and thankful my kids weren't with me.

AIBU?

Ok... What's YOUR solution then?

The alcohol industry should be treated the way tobacco companies are. Society shouldn’t have to pay for the pain they’ve caused without them suffering

Alcoholism is awful but it’s caused by trauma, pain and suffering. I never judge and just find it so very sad.

It's unbelievable to me that someone would spit out the word "compassion" like it's an insult.

My only experience of alcoholism was a family friend who lost her toddler in very sudden, horrific circumstances. It was in the news at the time. She was a social drinker only beforehand but after her little boy died she became an alcoholic. I can only assume that alcohol provided some relief through oblivion. She never recovered and died of alcohol related disease. There was never a point where she could have made a "choice" to get better because she was not capable of that kind of thought process. She was just existing, really. Not actually there in spirit.

I think our friend's story is probably on the really shitty end of a particularly shitty scale. But the fact is that nobody becomes an alcoholic for fun. Why aren't you an alcoholic? Is it because you'd love to but you are exercising self restraint? Or is it because it sounds like a miserable, degrading, lonely existence that you would never choose? People become alcoholics for a myriad of complex reasons. Making superficial judgements might make you feel superior but it does nothing to actually address the reasons for alcoholism.

There is no solution- that’s exactly my point.

we just have to live with it. Even with amazing mental health support you’ll still have addicts. Alcohol is addictive.

Do we all have to put up with seeing men's penises now whenever we go outdoors or use public transport?

You see a man exposing his penis whenever you go outdoors then?

Hmmm... woman comes on here upset at seeing drunken alcoholic man's penis in public, with said man urinating everywhere.

You: 'We just have to live with it'.

Interesting take. Wonder what else you think women should 'just have to live with'.

I'm the child of an alcoholic and it always surprises me to realise not everyone is absolutely disgusted by it. Reading through the thread, I think it's because those who haven't lived with an alcoholic have a rosy view of what they're like. They're picturing some poor soul quietly destroying themselves in anguish. Maybe stumbling around lost or doing themselves an injury. It's easy to have compassion for that. But those of us who have more up close and personal experience with it know just how nasty, selfish, and often violent alcoholics become, and that's what we think of first, every time we're faced with a drunk.

We also know how self-pitying and in denial they tend to be about their behaviour, and how the world often infantilises them and reinforces a narrative that they have no control over their actions. When the truth is, they're the only ones who can choose to stop, and every day they choose to keep drinking instead. It doesn't matter what the reasons behind the choice are. It's still a choice they're making. And the victims of that choice have the right to feel disgusted by it. We have the right not to be a font of pity for alcoholics anymore.

I understand your gut reaction here, OP. The smell of alcohol in someone's pores, and being around drunk people, triggers the same response in me if I'm honest

Silly comment.

If it's oh so understandable and excusable and won't somebody think of the poor men, then what you're saying is we shouldn't be so precious about indecent exposure.

Should we all just feel compassion for men who commit sexual crimes too? After all, many feel compelled to expose themselves, grope children, or commit rape, because after all, they've probably have endured horrible childhoods or they're off their tits on coke or whatever.

You think being locked up in a cell overnight would solve this man’s addiction and no doubt other problems? 🙄 Yes, I’m sure it’s that easy. It just never occurred to anyone.

Yeah why not. It's exactly the same as someone who doesn't know where they are having a piss.
Worked with addicts for many years and absolutely none of them ever said - I'm glad I got to this point - lost everything- early death but now I can piss on a train without recourse

It won’t solve his addiction. It would solve other people being pissed on for a night, and solve the cleaners having to clean all the tube carriages, and solve the tourists stopping coming to London because it’s so disgusting, and stop any more women and children having to witness it

If you spend more money to prevent and on recovery institutions, you need less money to spend to deal with crime and cleaning the mess.
Also with severe mental health issues.

This post actually reminded me of a recent story I read where a (mentally ill) man waiting on a platform suddenly attacked a stranger and pushed him down on the rails. Luckily somebody near had quick reflexes and pulled them right back.

What do you think society/the police/the courts can do to him that's worse than his everyday life?

It would at least keep him from falling on an electrified rail or down a long flight of stairs.

I'm sure anyone who is a paramedic would have all sorts of positive thoughts on the value of drunk tanks as opposed to loading mangled and bloody bodies into ambulances.

The question is what can society do that's better than his everyday life?

It's obviously not fine.

Now, imagine how bad life would have to get for you - you personally - to be blasted out of your mind, filthy, stinking of alcohol, exposing yourself in public while you urinate in a tube carriage. Imagine the kind of things that would have to happen for you to end up that low.

That's where that person is. He didn't set out to end up that way.

Of course you have to live with alcoholism. You have no power, or decent ideas, to stop it.

the people who do have the knowledge and expertise are also clear that you can’t stop alcoholism.

the idea that you think you can is ridiculous

Uptight? You missed this, @Hufflemuff .

Actually no. I went home upset at having to see a stranger's penis when I have been sexually assaulted in the past. Only now - later - am I really angry at having to see that.

you can be disgusted by the behaviours of alcoholics

you can acknowledge that nothing can be done to stop people becoming addicted to alcohol

both these things can be true at the same time

@Emerald0897 come on. It's not that the man exposed himself and urinated as he did that others are defending. It's the fact that some people are addicted, and that is sad and leads them to behave in anti-social ways.

but you conflate the two things. Alcoholism isn't simply bad because it leads to people urinating on public.

yes it's bad, but for a lot of reasons, not least the harm it does to the addict

Your title is also odd. I've never heard anyone say that there is dignity in alcholism so why do you think it's necessary to refute it?

People saying he was filthy, stinking and homeless...
All the OP says is he was an old guy reeking of alcohol.

I refuse to believe that most of you would keep these attitudes if you actually encountered alcoholics every day

if you came home from work, as I did, to find two of them fighting by your garden gate so you couldn’t get in your house, and one screams at you as you try to edge by; as they drop all their junk in your garden; as you walk up and the street stinks of piss; as they attack each other with bricks left over from your neighbour building a garden wall; and this goes on over and over again for months - i refuse to believe you would all sadly shake your heads and imagine the sad lives they must have had, and forebear from contacting the council or police as you can’t imagine making their lives any harder