There is no dignity in alcoholism

[Emerald0897]

And I'm fucking tired of the selfishness of it. AIBU?

Old guy on the tube today, totally reeking of alcohol, staggering everywhere and then actually exposing himself in order to piss all around the place, so everyone nearby had to scarper because it was actually in danger of soaking people. Utterly disgusting. He then fell out of the doors onto the platform at the next station.

It's been reported to TFL staff and the British Transport Police.

I've had two other alcoholics in my extended family, both of whom have caused massive disruption.

I know we are supposed to have pity for people's mental health issues but honestly, the impact on others is just awful. It's so antisocial.

I don't feel pity for the guy today. I feel utter disgust that he showed everyone his penis, and thankful my kids weren't with me.

AIBU?

I applaud the sentiment, in general, but sorry, I don't fancy being kind to this man. Women are always told to be kind. His behaviour was horrible.

I wish you could hear my applause 👏
My partner is a "functioning alcoholic" so doesn't receive as much "assistance" in the way of full time alcoholics. But believe me, there have been times when I've had to pick him up out of the garden (after contemplating leaving him there but the thought of these types of judgmental people has always made me help him)
He's fricking lucky he's got me!
That poor guy probably has no one or his addiction has took over

You’re right, there is no dignity in being so publicly ill.
Everyone deserves dignity, together with a safe shelter, food, clean clothing and love.

I applaud the sentiment, in general, but sorry, I don't fancy being kind to this man. Women are always told to be kind. His behaviour was horrible.

If this man was an alcoholic, he had very little control over his behaviour.

What you witnessed was indeed very unpleasant but in that state he really wasn’t a danger to you.

Nothing to do with being a woman. I'm not even asking you to be kind to the man. I agree it was horrible behaviour. Report it, move on. I don't see what you gainby posting online about it. I'm judging you for this thread far more than I would judge a sad alcoholic in the Tube.

And I was raised by an alcoholic, absolutely loathed him and everything his alcoholism did to him and our family. He died hating himself for his alcoholism. I am alive and thriving despite that.

How do you know he wasn't a danger to me? Were you there? Do you think alcoholics are never violent? I can assure you some are.

Sorry, edited to say, responding to your post @MrsSkylerWhite

Now imagine a society that prefers to virtue signal instead of actually focusing on solutions to the problems.

We know that spending money on vastly enlarged and improved services for families and education and mental health services makes a difference but when it comes to putting our money where our mouth is, we're not so enthusiastic.

I don't know why you're getting so much grief OP, it sounds horrible and I'm sorry you had deal with it.

I think that kind of behaviour in public is absolutely disgusting, why should the general public just have to put up with it. Not sure what the solution is though.

So many people affected by someone else's drinking struggle, but I see little empathy in your post.

It's nice to have a chance to get something off your chest and to receive some validation for an experience that people really shouldn't have to experience.

I wonder if there is anything a woman could post here that she wouldn't get shamed and judged for.

You’ve been very clear that you don’t care about people with alcohol dependence and that you’d be happy with this man getting a fine for his behaviour. So it certainly sounds like you’re in favour of a punishment. Either way, you sound oblivious to how any of this might work. A cell or a fine is not going to stop this man annoying other people the next day, so isn’t going to reduce the chance of you seeing people like him on any given day.

I've been knocked down concrete station steps by a stumbling drunk, while pregnant. I've seen drunks vomiting on other passengers. I've seen drunks harass teenage girls.

Bollocks to "in that state he really wasn’t a danger to you."

Bitchy and uncalled for comment that one!

She's a sexual assault survivor, @Mum2jenny . You really have no awareness or sensitivity, do you. Please do go down to your local rape shelter where women are still traumatised and don't want to see men at all at the moment, tell them 'what's the matter? Its a penis, I'm sure you've seen one previously'....

I agree, OP. Alcoholics are a bloody menace.

"Be Kind" is what has gotten women in SO much mess and trauma. No, women do NOT need to 'Be Kind' to a man exposing himself.
Please stop with that gaslighting and guilting. Haven't you heard? Women are angry; the era of 'Be Kind' is over.

I also speak as someone in recovery for alcohol addiction, but there is no excuse for a man exposing himself lie that.

apologies @ Emerald0897 and @mathanxiety. Tried to quote your replies but it won’t let me for some reason. (Has also become bold for some reason?)

I very specifically meant that on public transport with lots of other people with you, @Emerald0897, it’s unlikely that this very drunk person would cause you harm. I would have laid him out had he tried to hurt you had I been there. I suspect lots of your fellow passengers would do the same. (though had he not, I would have viewed him with sympathy).

That’s horrendous, @mathanxiety . I’m really sorry that happened to you. Must have been completely terrifying. I was responding to the very specific circumstance in this post.

I don’t think alcoholics are exclusively male.

Like @mathanxiety , what an awful experience for you. I am sorry to hear it.

@MrsSkylerWhite we'll have to agree to differ, I have also seen enough drunken violence to not feel reassured that he was unlikely to hurt me.

It was frightening. It was. And yes, I have vented because of harm caused by people I have known who have abused alcohol and subsequently abused those around them.

I admit it. I was triggered, today.

Also re: sexual assault, which I didn't want to mention and wasn't intending to, but felt I had to when people kept suggesting I was overreacting to seeing... I won't repeat it again.

It's certainly been illuminating, reading people telling me I ought to pity him, I ought to feel sorry for people with alcohol problems, I'm overreacting... clutching my pearls, etc.

One thing's for sure. This board isn't a place for the vulnerable. Mumsnet's wild, when a woman can literally describe what I have, and get a pile-on telling her to pity a man who's going round behaving like that.

I do wonder if all the people prescribing 'kindness' have really had to live with the impact of an alcoholic in the family (we had two... only one is still alive, the other drank herself to death).

Thank you to everyone who did post helpful/supportive comments, or shared their experiences.

This isn't the place for me. Over and out (I don't know if we still have flouncers' corner, but I'm off).

You already know that the man’s behaviour was unacceptable and presumably reported the incident. I’m sure you’re aware of the limitations of what can be done about it and you have no suggestions for what you would like to happen as a solution or repercussion, so what’s the point of your thread?
If you say you think addiction is a choice, not an illness, then it follows that you should expect associated behaviours to be punished the same as if the person was sober. So if you really believe that, you should have the conviction to back up your assertions and not cop out by saying you just need to vent, you don’t know what the solution is etc.

I would have said the same thing if it had been a drunk woman relieving herself in public. Granted, you'd see less, but she'd probably stumble and fall and end up in her own piss because she is a woman. As I said above, report the behaviour, but have some compassion.

She didn’t say that- why are you putting words in other people’s mouths? Really infantile and makes a proper discussion impossible.

Of course it's awful but have a little compassion.

I doubt he's having much fun being the way he is.

Alcoholism is hellish. What happened on the tube was terrible and I'm sorry you saw his bits.

Sadly it's a much wider problem in society than just social disruption.

Quite. You see little empathy in my post. Because it's a snapshot of what I felt as I wrote it. Should I have written an essay to express all my feelings and thoughts on the subject?

That doesn't mean I don't feel empathy for the OP or for the person her thread is about. I do however feel less empathy for how she expressed her experience on the tube compared to what I imagine is the lived, daily experience of the subject of the post.

Despite an extremely traumatic childhood as I alluded to in my second post.

People shouldn't have to experience this - I agree. But the sad fact is that if you're in London (or actually in most places( you will at some point be exposed to people with addiction, homeless people etc. As I said above, report and move on.

Obviously not but imagine how ashamed and humiliated he would be about that when sober (if he could actually recall it)…