Page 8 | First dates... splitting the bill.

NovemberMorn · 2025-02-25T18:29:47+00:00

Is it unreasonable to expect the male to pay the full bill on a first date dining out? I watch the programme 'First Dates' on TV, and it amazes me how, in this day and age, so many women either don't offer to split the food bill, or mutter something half-heartedly as the man gets his cc out, obviously not expecting to pay a penny.

Sofabodatgym · 26/02/2025 14:17

gannett · 26/02/2025 14:00

I don't really recognise any of this.

Financial generosity has nothing to do with generosity of spirit in my experience. Like, completely uncorrelated. So many men out there who'll splash the cash to "impress" women but then they never bother listening to her, taking her seriously or remembering her individual tastes. It's easier to assess generosity of spirit by just looking out for it directly rather than via the "symbol" of his wallet.

I would say that if you feel you're taking a risk you shouldn't be sleeping with that man at all. I've had a lot of casual sex but never when I felt any hint of danger. Yes, you can never be 100% sure of anything but my instincts (and contraception) always served me well.

I've also never sat through one of those unpaid therapist dates because I am not a passive conversationalist. If I was bored by a man's chat I would just talk about something else or if necessary bring the date to a very swift early close.

I suppose if you don't feel you have agency in a first-date conversation then you'd be quicker to accept that you're inherently unequal. Yes, structural inequality exists and affects all women generally, but there's no reason to feel it as an individual woman on a first date.

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Well lucky you
Literally every woman I've ever spoken to has felt talked over/therapist-y on dates with men, and no, not every man. So, to solely blame the woman as a 'passive conversationist' rather than look to men's lack of curiosity in women is pretty sad. For sure, there may be some truth in the passivity but to blame isn't helpful.
And again, genuinely great that you haven't had one bad experience regarding sex. But both statistics and the 'me too' movement would indicate that you're in a minority. And yes, instinct is massively important, but women even with instinct are taking more of a risk than men. And to pretend otherwise, is naive.
I have little time for women who have avoided certain experiences and choose to blame women, rather than look at the whole picture. Your post reads as smug and anti-women.

gannett · 26/02/2025 14:17

If a guy can’t pick up the bill without it being a massive deal, he’s not really in a financial position to be dating a grown woman.

How many dates per week would you encourage someone seriously looking for a partner to go on? In this day and age it's understood dating is a numbers game and everyone has to cast their net as widely as possible. Do you actually expect men to pay for every first date they go on? That's not a reasonable financial expectation.

I'd think worse of a man who did. I want a partner who's sensible financially, not someone who splurges on dumb shit (like three first dates in one week with women he barely knows) without thinking. (Also, another tip I always give younger woman - a man who knows the value of things and doesn't spend money just to impress others is a much better bet as a long-term partner than the ones bankrupting themselves by splashing the cash.)

mydogisthebest · 26/02/2025 14:20

I definitely think the woman should offer to split the bill. Even over 40 years ago when me and DH went on our first date I insisted on paying half even though he tried to insist that he paid it all.

Littlebitpsycho · 26/02/2025 14:21

Icanttakethisanymore · 25/02/2025 18:49

I would appreciate the offer to pay but I would only agree to it if I planned on seeing them again and I would pay the next time. If I wasn’t going to see them again insist on splitting.

I agree with this. My current boyfriend absolutely insisted on paying the first time we went out - i was literally waving cash at the waitress and she wouldn't take it!

I instantly told him I'd pay next time, and did so the following weekend without any argument from him

JenniferBooth · 26/02/2025 14:21

Im teetotal so whats the expectation if the man i was on a date with had several glasses of wine

JacqFrost · 26/02/2025 14:24

What an utter mix of responses. It's no wonder dating is such a minefield when there is seemingly no concrete understanding on how the first date should even roll from one person to the next and how unforgiving some people are if someone suggests the paying of a bill in a way that is not familiar to oneself.

ForRealCat · 26/02/2025 14:45

JacqFrost · 26/02/2025 14:24

What an utter mix of responses. It's no wonder dating is such a minefield when there is seemingly no concrete understanding on how the first date should even roll from one person to the next and how unforgiving some people are if someone suggests the paying of a bill in a way that is not familiar to oneself.

I think its a minefield because many people think about it in terms of winning and losing. He didn't want to see me again, translates to I haven't won- rather than he recognises we aren't compatible, great he's cut our losses and now neither of us waste any more time. (I don't think it is helped by gameshows that turn it into a competition with a winner).

I rather people be authentic on dates because it helps me know whether we are right for each other. I offer to split the bill, that is fine by me, but if he accepts then I am pretty sure we won't be compatible so there won't be a second date,

If he is the type who wants to split every bill and divide the pennies, its just going to piss me off long-term. I'd much rather we alternate who pays for what and it all evens out eventually.

MarkingBad · 26/02/2025 14:53

JacqFrost · 26/02/2025 14:24

What an utter mix of responses. It's no wonder dating is such a minefield when there is seemingly no concrete understanding on how the first date should even roll from one person to the next and how unforgiving some people are if someone suggests the paying of a bill in a way that is not familiar to oneself.

Isn't that the point of a first date, seeing if there is some compatibility enough to try a second date?

Pyjamatimenow · 26/02/2025 14:53

gannett · 26/02/2025 14:17

If a guy can’t pick up the bill without it being a massive deal, he’s not really in a financial position to be dating a grown woman.

How many dates per week would you encourage someone seriously looking for a partner to go on? In this day and age it's understood dating is a numbers game and everyone has to cast their net as widely as possible. Do you actually expect men to pay for every first date they go on? That's not a reasonable financial expectation.

I'd think worse of a man who did. I want a partner who's sensible financially, not someone who splurges on dumb shit (like three first dates in one week with women he barely knows) without thinking. (Also, another tip I always give younger woman - a man who knows the value of things and doesn't spend money just to impress others is a much better bet as a long-term partner than the ones bankrupting themselves by splashing the cash.)

I went on one or two per week. A drink is what £4-£6? I only ever had two but I was short on time. First dates should be short and sweet. A guy spending £12 on a date’s drinks once or twice or even three times a week isn’t a lot of money. If there is enough attraction for a second date paying for a nice meal is a better investment in a man’s future than a day at the football or a night out drinking with his friends. Dating is a form of socialising so if he wasn’t spending money on that he’d probably still be spending on some other form of socialising. If a man is serious about finding a life partner then I wouldn’t call that ‘dumb shit’.

Killam · 26/02/2025 14:56

TBH I split the bill if I don't want to see them again.

Ankhmo · 26/02/2025 15:01

ForRealCat · 26/02/2025 14:45

I think its a minefield because many people think about it in terms of winning and losing. He didn't want to see me again, translates to I haven't won- rather than he recognises we aren't compatible, great he's cut our losses and now neither of us waste any more time. (I don't think it is helped by gameshows that turn it into a competition with a winner).

I rather people be authentic on dates because it helps me know whether we are right for each other. I offer to split the bill, that is fine by me, but if he accepts then I am pretty sure we won't be compatible so there won't be a second date,

If he is the type who wants to split every bill and divide the pennies, its just going to piss me off long-term. I'd much rather we alternate who pays for what and it all evens out eventually.

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I rather people be authentic on dates because it helps me know whether we are right for each other. I offer to split the bill, that is fine by me, but if he accepts then I am pretty sure we won't be compatible so there won't be a second date,

Your idea of authentic is to make a false offer that if he takes, he loses.

Is he paying for your time or are you getting to know each other?

That's the simple question.

Are women in society seen as buyable?
Do men think they can pay for access to women's bodies and does that breed a society where Only Fans can encourage a young woman to degrade herself for money?

"Be authentic" go for it.
Tell them you'll be judging them in the time allotted and they'll only be paying half if you deem them lacking...
But if they get to pay for the whole date, they win a chance at a second period of time with you...

TwistedWonder · 26/02/2025 15:03

I think it’s very entitled for women to sit on their hands and let a man pay without uttering a word.

Ive found in my experience that most men will reach for the bill, I always off to contribute but they usually refuse to accept.

Tbh I never go dinner for a first date anyway as I can’t think of anything worse than having to sit through a meal with a.stranger. I prefer drinks and I’ll always get the second round if he’s got the first.

I would feel ashamed of myself to sit there and expect a stranger to bankroll my food and drink,

Ive never understood the have penis, pay the bill mentality.

Its extremely outdated - I’m nearly 60 and it was old fashioned even when I was young.

ThDanielDay · 26/02/2025 15:03

"I rather people be authentic on dates because it helps me know whether we are right for each other. I offer to split the bill, that is fine by me, but if he accepts then I am pretty sure we won't be compatible so there won't be a second date,"
😂😂😂😂

"I rather people be authentic on dates..... so I make a disingenuous offer to test him without him knowing it's a test. "

You have to feel so sorry for these guys winding up with broke stingy women who's self worth is the same value as an espresso martini

Moier · 26/02/2025 15:07

Those on First dates get money towards the meal. So if one is paying.. the other makes money.. l don't think they get it all paid.

TwistedWonder · 26/02/2025 15:08

I do love the fact some women claim to have old fashioned values - which they judge by his wallet 🤣

wfhwfh · 26/02/2025 15:09

ForRealCat · 26/02/2025 14:45

I think its a minefield because many people think about it in terms of winning and losing. He didn't want to see me again, translates to I haven't won- rather than he recognises we aren't compatible, great he's cut our losses and now neither of us waste any more time. (I don't think it is helped by gameshows that turn it into a competition with a winner).

I rather people be authentic on dates because it helps me know whether we are right for each other. I offer to split the bill, that is fine by me, but if he accepts then I am pretty sure we won't be compatible so there won't be a second date,

If he is the type who wants to split every bill and divide the pennies, its just going to piss me off long-term. I'd much rather we alternate who pays for what and it all evens out eventually.

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I think this is a great message. Online dating, etc has made dating so transactional and combative. If we can stop thinking of it as a game where one party “wins” at the expense of the other and instead make it about connection and compatibility, then a lot of the issues disappear.

There is no one “right” way to behave around this issue. Best to be authentic as everyone is looking for a different dynamic in a relationship

TwistedWonder · 26/02/2025 15:10

If a guy can’t pick up the bill without it being a massive deal, he’s not really in a financial position to be dating a grown woman.

And if a woman can’t even offer to pay towards the food and drink she puts in her mouth, then she’s not someone who should be dating a grown man.

Completelyjo · 26/02/2025 15:13

@Pyjamatimenow k. A drink is what £4-£6?

Are you in 2001?

ThDanielDay · 26/02/2025 15:25

Completelyjo · 26/02/2025 15:13

@Pyjamatimenow k. A drink is what £4-£6?

Are you in 2001?

Tbf to her she hasn't got a round in since then

Newtrix · 26/02/2025 15:27

My Husband paid for our first date, I let him because I knew I'd see him again so I paid the next time.

JHound · 26/02/2025 15:27

Crushed23 · 26/02/2025 13:26

It's basically cultural.

In high earning, professional / middle class circles, it's not even a point of discussion - the men always pay on the first date. It doesn't mean they want an unequal relationship or they expect sex in return. It really doesn't work like that. It's tantamount to good manners.

I've been on literally 100+ first dates and only a handful have led to a second date, and fewer still led to further dates and a sexual relationship. Not once did I feel that a man 'expected' sex just because he bought me dinner or whatever.

It’s nothing to do with class.

JHound · 26/02/2025 15:29

Sofabodatgym · 26/02/2025 13:33

I think it's 90s/out of date thinking to split it.
I barely drink so it wouldn't be much of a tab. But that's irrelevant, it symbolises generosity. And that discounts paying, then going on about how amazing they are because they spent £10 at Nando's (this happened!). Generosity of spirit is very much needed if the relationship lasts. And generosity in finances can symbolise this.
At some point if they sleep together, the woman is risking a lot - pregnancy, std's (often affect women more than men), reputation, at the extreme end - murder/rape... Also, in my experience men get so much invisible stuff from women, I've sat on dates and felt like a therapist/life coach. So, it goes towards balancing the inherent inequality between the sexes.

The way some women love to try and rationalise this one gender role they want to cleave to…

😂

strawberrysea · 26/02/2025 15:30

If a man didn't pay for me on a first date there wouldn't be a second

JHound · 26/02/2025 15:32

JacqFrost · 26/02/2025 14:24

What an utter mix of responses. It's no wonder dating is such a minefield when there is seemingly no concrete understanding on how the first date should even roll from one person to the next and how unforgiving some people are if someone suggests the paying of a bill in a way that is not familiar to oneself.

Why would there be a concrete answer?

Women are people. That means we are varied in our wants, desires, outlooks and opinions.

Surely that cannot surprise you?

JacqFrost · 26/02/2025 15:38

JHound · 26/02/2025 15:32

Why would there be a concrete answer?

Women are people. That means we are varied in our wants, desires, outlooks and opinions.

Surely that cannot surprise you?

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There's no consistency on opinion on this from one woman to the next as seen in the comments on here that's the problem.