Page 7 | First dates... splitting the bill.

NovemberMorn · 2025-02-25T18:29:47+00:00

Is it unreasonable to expect the male to pay the full bill on a first date dining out? I watch the programme 'First Dates' on TV, and it amazes me how, in this day and age, so many women either don't offer to split the food bill, or mutter something half-heartedly as the man gets his cc out, obviously not expecting to pay a penny.

gannett · 26/02/2025 09:57

FrauPaige · 26/02/2025 09:30

Wowsers. For generations women strove to have a place at the table and to raise daughters that not only would be treated as equals to men but believed that they were equal to men.

Yet, so many of us today are seemingly longing for a return to the 1950s - judging men by their financial standing and willingness to spend. The lure of traditional courtship.

But do we want what came with men opening doors for us? Societal pressure to maintain a size 6 figure, expectation to be immaculately presented at all times, careers ending at 30, second class status in both the home and society.

There are very many women in East Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America that have men pay for the first and following dates. I am sure that they would trade chivalry for a life long career and financial independence, and I for one am not looking backwards.

I'll pay for my own food, thank you very much.

👏👏

I was open-mouthed at a PP who essentially said that the answer to women still not being fully equal is to embrace it.

The best life lesson I got from growing up in a traditional, conservative household where men and women were expected to fulfil very rigid roles is that you don't get to pick and choose your traditional gender roles. They come as a package. If a man wants to be the provider, he will also think you should stay at home and be the nurturer. He will see your job as lesser and he will want you to take care of the house, not him. Not for me!

Ankhmo · 26/02/2025 12:10

TheFatCatsWhiskers1 · 26/02/2025 09:10

Ah yes of course, it's women's fault isn't it. You sound like Andrew Tate.

I don't know any woman who expects a man to provide for her. Oddly enough it hasn't stopped them being discriminated against, financially screwed over or subjected to sexism, misogyny and abuse.

Show quote history

Weird you mention Tate ..

Toxic Male Beliefs pushed on to disenfranchised young men:

"Women will only sleep with you, if you have money and pay for dinner."
"Women are basixally prostitutes that can be bought and paid for"
"all women want an alpha chad with cash to pay for them and if you're broke, doesn't matter how decent, kind and honest you are... They'll always go for the Alpha chad with a wallet.."

I'd love to say that every single woman would read them and be horrified and offended...

And yet..

"If he doesn't pay, I'm not interested .."

"If I'm interested, I'll let him pay.. if I'm not interested, I'll insist on paying half.."

....

Two sides - Same Coin.
Two cheeks - same arsehole.

....

How many women moan they can't find a decent bloke and then dismiss decent, honest, fair minded men because they suggested an ice cream and a walk on the beach instead of a £100 restaurant bill they'd be stuck with...

"I'm so sick of toxic men... But I'll only date men that can pay and treat me like I can be bought and paid for...."

🙄

JHound · 26/02/2025 12:28

This is moot for me because honestly I rarely meet men who don’t want to pay / accept my offer to split.

I have only dated three men who accepted splitting the bill - one was an ex who was admittedly very tight (constant joke with friends.)

One was a situationship.

The final only accepted my offer on the first date and insisted on paying for everything going forward.

Maybe I attract very different men! I don’t understand the argument about this nor the need to criticise and demean people just for not following / falling in line with your own preferences. This is a fairly harmless preference.

JHound · 26/02/2025 12:29

PeloMom · 26/02/2025 01:44

Agree.
i see so many comments how this approach is ‘wrong’ … and few years down the line we see what a lot of threads are here about:

he doesn’t pay for xyz
i had to take out of my savings during maternity the cover my share of bills
he doesn’t take me anywhere/ buy me birthday/ Xmas etc gifts

and all sorts of other scenarios 🤦🏻‍♀️ A man who is generous with his money is usually generous with his time and feelings too ime.

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Nonsense. Willingness to pay on a first date is no indicator of how good a partner somebody will be in the future.

Original poster

NovemberMorn · 26/02/2025 12:44

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 26/02/2025 01:13

I think he can buy a couple of drinks and if he cant afford to then he should be working not dating.
Also, why should women get their hair blow dried and nails done and spray tans and Ubers because rapists etc etc to get ready for the date and the men just go straight there in their work clothes then night bus or walk home?

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You must have had some very odd dates.

OP posts:

everychildmatters · 26/02/2025 12:52

@NovemberMorn Likewise, I/he may think the same way about you...
I think she can buy a couple of drinks and if she cant afford to then she should be working not dating.
The s/he is irrelevant here, no?

JHound · 26/02/2025 12:54

Ankhmo · 26/02/2025 12:10

Weird you mention Tate ..

Toxic Male Beliefs pushed on to disenfranchised young men:

"Women will only sleep with you, if you have money and pay for dinner."
"Women are basixally prostitutes that can be bought and paid for"
"all women want an alpha chad with cash to pay for them and if you're broke, doesn't matter how decent, kind and honest you are... They'll always go for the Alpha chad with a wallet.."

I'd love to say that every single woman would read them and be horrified and offended...

And yet..

"If he doesn't pay, I'm not interested .."

"If I'm interested, I'll let him pay.. if I'm not interested, I'll insist on paying half.."

....

Two sides - Same Coin.
Two cheeks - same arsehole.

....

How many women moan they can't find a decent bloke and then dismiss decent, honest, fair minded men because they suggested an ice cream and a walk on the beach instead of a £100 restaurant bill they'd be stuck with...

"I'm so sick of toxic men... But I'll only date men that can pay and treat me like I can be bought and paid for...."

🙄

Show quote history

There is some clear water between “ice-cream and walk on the beach” and “expensive dinner” though

JHound · 26/02/2025 12:56

bifurCAT · 26/02/2025 06:18

We both know that's not what the point of this thread is. Of course anyone can offer to pay for a meal for a friend, or someone they fancy.

This thread is about the expectation. Those people who deem a man unworthy of them unless they spend money. The "if he ONLY takes me for a walk in the park, or for coffee date, he won't be seeing me again" crowd.
You are telling him that your presence has a price.

No wonder people above are saying it then feels like it comes with an obligation for sex. You are telling him 'this is a demonstration of how you will treat me in a relationship... i expect this'. Would you be surprised if he had an expectation for a reciprocal demonstration (sex)?

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I don’t even see the issue with an expectation. It’s all personal preference.

JHound · 26/02/2025 12:57

xsammi · 26/02/2025 00:41

Like quite a few women on this thread, I expect the man to pay on the first date (assuming I want to see him again).

If I have no intention of seeing him again, I insist on paying half. Then we owe nothing to each other.

If I intend to see him again, he can pay... I'll then pay next time and we can take it in turns to treat each other.

I don't want a man to pay for me, I just want to know that he could. That way, I know he can keep up with me financially. I've dated a few men who were shit with finances, and I'm over that.

Mind you, who has dinner on a first date? I'd rather go for a coffee/drink somewhere. Apart from the cost, don't people feel... trapped? Much easier to have a short date/escape plan when you're not eating a meal with someone.

I don't think I'd ever feel comfortable with a man paying every time. It feels like that creates a power imbalance/obligation.

Same.

If he wants to pay I let him.

If I don’t want to see him again I fight to split the bill.

Original poster

NovemberMorn · 26/02/2025 12:58

Some fascinating answers.

Maybe the expectation that the man should pay is more telling than if he actually does.
Today, if I was dating, I would always offer, if I liked him, I would accept his offer to pay. That would have no strings, I owe him nothing, and if there was the slightest hint that I did...I wouldn't have accepted the offer.

There is no way I would accept if I had no intention of seeing him again.
I think (for me) splitting a first date bill on my insistence, would be the same as finishing something before it started.

Obviously if the man I was with was skint, I would pay half without question, that would be a practical decision more than anything else.

OP posts:

Pyjamatimenow · 26/02/2025 13:11

When I was dating I let them pay whether I was going to see them again or not. Men know that if you want to pay there’s a good chance you don’t want to see them again. I tried to pay once with a guy that I felt sorry for and he got very upset and said it was obvious that I was insisting on paying because he would never see me again. It was very very awkward. I think it’s better to leave them with a bit of hope and just gracefully let them pick up the bill and say thank you. If a guy can’t pick up the bill without it being a massive deal, he’s not really in a financial position to be dating a grown woman.

Crushed23 · 26/02/2025 13:26

It's basically cultural.

In high earning, professional / middle class circles, it's not even a point of discussion - the men always pay on the first date. It doesn't mean they want an unequal relationship or they expect sex in return. It really doesn't work like that. It's tantamount to good manners.

I've been on literally 100+ first dates and only a handful have led to a second date, and fewer still led to further dates and a sexual relationship. Not once did I feel that a man 'expected' sex just because he bought me dinner or whatever.

Crushed23 · 26/02/2025 13:31

Pyjamatimenow · 26/02/2025 13:11

When I was dating I let them pay whether I was going to see them again or not. Men know that if you want to pay there’s a good chance you don’t want to see them again. I tried to pay once with a guy that I felt sorry for and he got very upset and said it was obvious that I was insisting on paying because he would never see me again. It was very very awkward. I think it’s better to leave them with a bit of hope and just gracefully let them pick up the bill and say thank you. If a guy can’t pick up the bill without it being a massive deal, he’s not really in a financial position to be dating a grown woman.

Also agree with this.

It's good manners for the woman to let the man pay, just as it's good manners for the man to pay. I've actually stopped offering as it's quite awkward, as you say.

Again, this is specifically in high earning / professional / MC circles - can't speak for the rest of society.

Sofabodatgym · 26/02/2025 13:33

I think it's 90s/out of date thinking to split it.
I barely drink so it wouldn't be much of a tab. But that's irrelevant, it symbolises generosity. And that discounts paying, then going on about how amazing they are because they spent £10 at Nando's (this happened!). Generosity of spirit is very much needed if the relationship lasts. And generosity in finances can symbolise this.
At some point if they sleep together, the woman is risking a lot - pregnancy, std's (often affect women more than men), reputation, at the extreme end - murder/rape... Also, in my experience men get so much invisible stuff from women, I've sat on dates and felt like a therapist/life coach. So, it goes towards balancing the inherent inequality between the sexes.

MarkingBad · 26/02/2025 13:36

Crushed23 · 26/02/2025 13:26

It's basically cultural.

In high earning, professional / middle class circles, it's not even a point of discussion - the men always pay on the first date. It doesn't mean they want an unequal relationship or they expect sex in return. It really doesn't work like that. It's tantamount to good manners.

I've been on literally 100+ first dates and only a handful have led to a second date, and fewer still led to further dates and a sexual relationship. Not once did I feel that a man 'expected' sex just because he bought me dinner or whatever.

I don't think it is to do with class or income level but it may be to do with age. I've dated working and middle class men, neither have been fussed about 50:50 or not apart from one I mentioned earlier.

I started dating late 80-90s when the whole scene was different. There were heavy expectations of putting out if the men paid, and sometimes even if they didn't, or that you would split the bill at the time and even now with men my own age, there's less of an expectation of sex but the 50:50 is still there.

Pyjamatimenow · 26/02/2025 13:50

Crushed23 · 26/02/2025 13:26

It's basically cultural.

In high earning, professional / middle class circles, it's not even a point of discussion - the men always pay on the first date. It doesn't mean they want an unequal relationship or they expect sex in return. It really doesn't work like that. It's tantamount to good manners.

I've been on literally 100+ first dates and only a handful have led to a second date, and fewer still led to further dates and a sexual relationship. Not once did I feel that a man 'expected' sex just because he bought me dinner or whatever.

Possibly but equally you’ll get a lot of working class types of men that will definitely pay and it not be an issue. I dated a lot before dh about ten years ago. All types of guys really. I probably went on one/ two a week for about eighteen months. They all paid bar one guy who was nursing a drink when I got there and never offered to get up and get me one when I arrived. Very odd. I bought my own and left pretty quickly. He still asked me out again. I pretty much always got asked for a second date so I really don’t think a woman not paying puts men off. I always made a lot of effort for dates. Hair blow dried, nails, tan, nice outfit and as said upthread by @Sofabodatgym men tend to use dates for therapy and get a lot out of the female company. I definitely think that a lot of the time men get more out of a first date than women do even when no physical contact takes place.

JenniferBooth · 26/02/2025 13:57

Completelyjo · 26/02/2025 07:40

Absolutely none of this is relevant to men paying for dates!

In fact I would hypothesise that more women who sit back and let men pay for the dating period probably find themselves in relationships with unequal access to finances down the line!

Show quote history

Check out my link upthread where i posted Mr 50/50

gannett · 26/02/2025 14:00

Sofabodatgym · 26/02/2025 13:33

I think it's 90s/out of date thinking to split it.
I barely drink so it wouldn't be much of a tab. But that's irrelevant, it symbolises generosity. And that discounts paying, then going on about how amazing they are because they spent £10 at Nando's (this happened!). Generosity of spirit is very much needed if the relationship lasts. And generosity in finances can symbolise this.
At some point if they sleep together, the woman is risking a lot - pregnancy, std's (often affect women more than men), reputation, at the extreme end - murder/rape... Also, in my experience men get so much invisible stuff from women, I've sat on dates and felt like a therapist/life coach. So, it goes towards balancing the inherent inequality between the sexes.

I don't really recognise any of this.

Financial generosity has nothing to do with generosity of spirit in my experience. Like, completely uncorrelated. So many men out there who'll splash the cash to "impress" women but then they never bother listening to her, taking her seriously or remembering her individual tastes. It's easier to assess generosity of spirit by just looking out for it directly rather than via the "symbol" of his wallet.

I would say that if you feel you're taking a risk you shouldn't be sleeping with that man at all. I've had a lot of casual sex but never when I felt any hint of danger. Yes, you can never be 100% sure of anything but my instincts (and contraception) always served me well.

I've also never sat through one of those unpaid therapist dates because I am not a passive conversationalist. If I was bored by a man's chat I would just talk about something else or if necessary bring the date to a very swift early close.

I suppose if you don't feel you have agency in a first-date conversation then you'd be quicker to accept that you're inherently unequal. Yes, structural inequality exists and affects all women generally, but there's no reason to feel it as an individual woman on a first date.

ForRealCat · 26/02/2025 14:01

I would always offer to pay, but I would judge a man who took me up on it. I would expect to pay for the second date, and then just alternate who pays what. The only time I'd really insist on paying is if I knew I wasn't intending on a second date so couldn't reciprocate.

I can't be arsed to get into a relationship where you're always splitting bills and counting pennies. I like someone with a bit of generosity and I like to be generous back, splitting everything seems miserly

JenniferBooth · 26/02/2025 14:02

FrauPaige · 26/02/2025 09:30

Wowsers. For generations women strove to have a place at the table and to raise daughters that not only would be treated as equals to men but believed that they were equal to men.

Yet, so many of us today are seemingly longing for a return to the 1950s - judging men by their financial standing and willingness to spend. The lure of traditional courtship.

But do we want what came with men opening doors for us? Societal pressure to maintain a size 6 figure, expectation to be immaculately presented at all times, careers ending at 30, second class status in both the home and society.

There are very many women in East Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America that have men pay for the first and following dates. I am sure that they would trade chivalry for a life long career and financial independence, and I for one am not looking backwards.

I'll pay for my own food, thank you very much.

Sociatal pressure to maintain a size 6 figure hasnt ended. 500,000 people in this country (UK) are on weight loss injections.
Splitting the bill wont change this expectation
Now THATS mental gymnastics

Comedycook · 26/02/2025 14:02

Im not single but if I was, I'd offer to split. If I didn't want to see him again, I'd insist. If I liked him, and he offered to pay the whole thing I'd accept graciously. If I liked him and he was happy to split the bill, I'd never see him again.

wfhwfh · 26/02/2025 14:05

NovemberMorn · 26/02/2025 12:58

Some fascinating answers.

Maybe the expectation that the man should pay is more telling than if he actually does.
Today, if I was dating, I would always offer, if I liked him, I would accept his offer to pay. That would have no strings, I owe him nothing, and if there was the slightest hint that I did...I wouldn't have accepted the offer.

There is no way I would accept if I had no intention of seeing him again.
I think (for me) splitting a first date bill on my insistence, would be the same as finishing something before it started.

Obviously if the man I was with was skint, I would pay half without question, that would be a practical decision more than anything else.

I agree with your approach. I would always offer to pay and be happy to - although I’d probably assume the man wasn’t that interested if he wanted to split.

If I wasn’t interested in seeing a man again, I would insist on splitting. I’d only let a man pay if (a) he was happy to and (b) I was interested in a romantic connection with him.

But I would not think I “owed” him anything if he paid - that’s something else entirely

ReadingRubbish · 26/02/2025 14:05

It's sad to see that so many women offer to pay but don't actually want to pay. I'd always pay. It wouldn't be a discussion or a fake offer

If it was something that was very inexpensive then maybe I'd just pay or 'let' them pay.

I don't get why men should be generous with their money but not women.

InvisibilityCloakActivated · 26/02/2025 14:07

If you find the whole bill splitting dance awkward, choose a different type of first date.

Go for a walk - noone pays!
Meet for coffee - unlikely to arrive at the exact same second, so get a coffee and sit down and whoever arrives second can get their coffee and join you (or if one person ends up paying it isn't quite as financially crippling as buying 2 starters, mains, puds and a bottle of wine!)
Go for drinks - do rounds and take turns paying.

Comedycook · 26/02/2025 14:09

If you step back and consider how dangerous men can be to women within society as a whole, it's absolutely astounding that women even date at all. Rape, murder, unwanted pregnancy. Spending time with a man you don't know well is a huge risk when you think about it. Therefore dating is not a equal opps situation.