To feel guilty for being successful?

[SailorSerena]

I was born in the 90's to a young single mother in a council flat. We were desperately poor and I remember her crying some nights in because she had nothing to eat, I often got pot noodles.

My mum worked incredibly hard to get her degree while I was a young child and got herself a good career, she bought us a lovely house and took me on nice holidays and paid for my dance classes when I was in secondary school. She was an inspiration. I always loved horses from being tiny but obviously we could never afford one.

I worked hard and got a degree in STEM, got a good career after years of working in horrible jobs with awful hours while being treated like absolute shit by bully managers because I knew the only way I would get a good career with a good employer was with this experience behind me so stuck it out. I bought my first house is my early twenties and now mid thirties have a husband, child, large beautiful country house, and 2 horses I adore.

I worked my fingers to the bone for this, suffered a few break downs along the way for this and wasn't born with a silver spoon, we had nothing. I EARNED it with blood, sweat and tears. So why do I feel guilty for having it?

Every night when we go to bed I look around my house and know how blessed I am, I am so grateful that I have a safe, warm home to raise my child in and the life I always dreamed of. I feel absolutely guilt ridden that I have this and others don't even though I earned it. There are children who grew up on the same council estate as me, some still live there with multiple children repeating the cycle, some are in jail. A minority got out like I did. I feel crushing guilt that I got out and others didn't when I look around at my life, even though I know I worked hard for it and earned it.

Does anybody else feel this way? I almost feel like I shouldn't have these things because other people don't have them, is this a normal way to feel after growing up in poverty? Do people who grew up middle class feel this way? Or is not a class thing and just a me thing?

This isn't a brag, it's my life history condensed as much as possible without too much detail and genuinely asking people if this guilt is normal or not.

I'm not disputing you worked hard, and that's great, but also agree other people (e.g. cleaners but many others) work hard and don't achieve the same level of financial success. That's the inevitable unfairness of life. Similarly, I'm sorry your formative years were blighted with poverty. Looking to now, if you feel guilty, then do something about it. Actively help out. Give back. Make a difference.

I can recognise parts of your story but with some differences. also raised by a strong single mum, English wasn’t first language, faced difficulties, racism etc but worked incredibly hard to put us through a grammar school and have financial security. She passed on her work ethic to me although due to some life events I never really reached my full potential, always worked hard whilst raising a child myself as a single mum but have remained in more entry level jobs (too much to go into as to why)

anyway despite that due to financial help from my mum and meeting a lovely partner we now have a beautiful house and disposable income, two kids etc, I question whether I deserve it all the time tbh

i feel like in many ways it’d be easier if I did work my way up in a career as opposed to leaning on my mums money- then I wouldn’t feel as guilty- other times I try to give myself a break and realise ive done well just to even be here

just a slightly different perspective… also agree with what people have said about love, if you had secure attachment from a young age it makes it much easier to mitigate difficult life events

Yes I agree with this, this is me as I have always worked so hard to make things work but basically being a single parent myself, undiagnosed autism/adhd, the pandemic all messed up my career trajectory. Not excuses as such but also I think sometimes there’s an element of luck and timing with certain things.

I haven’t read the full thread, OP but this is just to say sometimes doing something really simple can help. Have you thought about going to a school and listening to children read? It’s the presence of an adult that helps them and they will be able to ‘read’ all sorts of things about you. Just spending half an hour with someone who isn’t their family or teacher but someone who has chosen to be there makes a huge difference. And you will be aspirational to some little girl who is experiencing what you experienced as a child. What they need to see is that there are adults they can feel safe and comfortable with out in the world and who will encourage them in the right way ( through education) and just sitting with you will do huge things for their confidence.

The difference on reading levels for those ( particularly who struggle or don’t have encouragement at home) who work on a one to one basis with volunteers is huge - I could really see the difference. And they love the contact. Some children never have anyone hear them read and it makes all the world of a difference

I think once you accept that, you find peace. The poster who suggested reading - great idea. What a kind thing to do.

You are massively underestimating the role of luck in both yours and your mother's good fortune OP. Most single women in poverty are not able to quite drastically transform their situation by simply getting a degree and working, and I don't know anyone with a STEM degree who has a country house with horses. Neither of your stories are typical at all.
And you have repeated numerous times that your mother gave you nothing, I think that is very unfair. Practising gratitude, volunteering with children in poverty and mentoring are all really good ideas.
There's a brilliant book called People Like Us by Hashi Mohamed, he grew up in abject poverty and is a top barrister now, but he keeps maintaining that luck is so under acknowledged. Most of his siblings are still living in poverty.

I agree with PP that it was your mum that broke the cycle, not you OP.

I also dislike when people shout about "working hard", so much harder than other people. It just gives off an air of arrogance and superiority.

Sure there are lots of people that don't work hard, are maybe still stuck in generational cycles. Equally there are plenty of people that work incredibly hard and still don't achieve what you seem to measure as success.

I grew up in poor, although I appreciate not to the extent of some. I never had the correct equipment for school, too short uniform, shoes will holes in, or the incorrect shoes all together as my parents couldn't afford to replace school shoes. I had one holey coat, handed down from my sister. I also remember being absolutely freezing for most of my childhood. No holidays. Had food most of the time but not proper meals, a lot of beans on toast etc.

I am the one "breaking the cycle" in many ways. I have worked hard, very hard. But I don't have the "success" by your measure.

I am the first in my family to have gone to university. I have a professional job, but in the public sector so doesn't pay well. I have a mortgage. I am a single parent as I left a DV relationship (again breaking the cycle as I grew up in an unhappy home).

I don't have a husband and a "country house" but I see myself as still achieving quite a lot in life given my start.

Just live your life OP and don't feel guilty, no one else cares but you TBH.

You haven't been on holiday because you can't afford it? Sell one of your horses then, rent out one of the rooms you have in the home you own? If you really want a holiday, sell the farm cottage and downsize and that should cover holidays for a few years 🙄

OP you are still.missing the point lovely .. you are focussing on the negatives of your early childhood rather than the positives. There is so much positive that can come of seeing a parent stressed and grafting to provide for YOU. You saw you mum crying and leaned that she is striving and stressed to provide for YOU, you saw her working for YOU. You learnt that you don't want to be poor to have to cry, You leart that this woman was able to pull herself from no food and no electric to get to uni and earn money and even buy a house FOR YOU. You saw a woman strive and achieve and you learnt that so you could repeat it. You saw your mum go without food so YOU could eat. You felt loved. You saw your mum would always provide for YOU even if she went without

There are MILLIONS of people across the globe that struggle with poverty as under 10 year olds. I'm sorry you experienced poverty for a few years as a kid but get over yourself. So did I, so did millions more. You also experienced the privilege of being loved, of having a fantastic role mole, of experiencing your teenage years relatively well off (which matters a lot because that's when you need to take GCSEs, a levels and consider uni).

Stop trying to show how much worse your life was than others, and what a hero you are. It's ridiculous.

I totally get this OP.

I grew up on a council estate, lots of addiction, violence and criminality in my family. But my parents did the best they could. We didn't always have enough money, but we had food, and they loved me. As I got older things got very rough and now in adulthood I'm the odd one out as someone who was the first to go to uni, quality in a profession, get a mortgage, marry before having a child etc. Now my child has a life I honestly dreamed of for them. Parents that love them, that prioritise education, that offer extracurricular hobbies like sports and music, that read with them. There is always food, we can choose to eat pretty much whatever we fancy. Berries and avocado are a daily snack! It blows my mind.

I don't feel guilty, but I do feel enormously fortunate, and I'd encourage you to try and turn your guilt into gratitude if you can. You were incredibly fortunate to have been born to a mother that loved you, that wanted the best for you, that was willing and capable of studying, getting a decent job, and becoming successful. There are many kids in the world who don't have a single adult that loves and cares for them. I was SO lucky to have parents that didn't have anything materially, but passed along a love for literature, for music, and for learning. Without those things I wouldn't be where I am today. Which is by no means in the stratosphere haha but it is a more secure and lovely life than I ever dreamed was possible.

Plenty of people work incredibly hard every day of their life and never make it out of poverty.

Reading a book set in the slums in India absolutely revolutionised what I thought I knew about poverty btw. Growing up in a tiny council flat with one loving parent and enough food for the child is a dream compared to what many humans experience every day of their life, with no end in sight.

I think one thing you are not giving enough weight to OP is timing. The date your mother, and then you got onto the property ladder probably effected your life trajectory, more so than working your fingers to the bone.

My mother has the rags to riches story and she is painful to listen to at times. Personal triumph over poverty, climbed her way out when others didn't because they didn't graft as hard as she did....... What she fails to recognise was the buoyant economy and property market that she was part of in her early working life, that propelled her forward. Her match in my dad who jumped on the property market (first), and provided a home and the upwardly mobile property value acsent. They bough horses too (thoroughbred) and land, however in 2008 their value collapsed.

I think what you are failing to recognise sufficiently, is the luck of timing and economic forces beyond the average person's control.

I understand the not fully fitting in with the current neighbours or the original neighbourhood, but that's part and parcel of social mobility.

Most of the rags to riches is timing rather than hard graft. There ll be plenty of other grafters that it didn't work out quite so well, even though they worked just as hard. There ll be other lucky sods who just got in at the right time or other forces outside of their control worked in their favour.

100% this.

I have a professional career now earning a decent wage (household income over 100k, which I know is peanuts on MN haha), and yes I worked extremely hard (pulled 80hr weeks for a few years), but it wasn't hard work alone that enabled me to pull myself out of poverty. It was luck too. I was lucky enough to go to uni for a course when the fees were paid and they gave a small bursary. It wasn't enough to live on by any means but meant with full time hours on top I could make it work. Without that I don't honestly see how I could have got to where I am now. It wasn't practically possible. The ladder seems to have been pulled up for that now, which is awful.

Illustrative example:

I bought my house in late 2005 and later married, meaning it was the marital home. When I split with my ex, it's value had dipped due to the 2008 financial collapse, nevertheless I bought him out via savings and a small inheritance. With that money he bought a house at 190k, which is now worth (9 years later) circa 350k, so he now has €200k plus equity despite never saving for a deposit etc. Timing goes a long way on asset wealth.

Poverty teaches you to be a front loader and to save, but the big jumps in wealth are often down to the economy and timing.

I don't know if this link will work. Hopefully it will. The dad reminds me of your mum. I think you should watch it to help you understand why some people see you as privileged for having such a great parent.. I'm sure if the girl in the clip was real, and she wanted a farm house and horses, she'd go on to get that. I also think though, she'd recognise her luck and privilege

This is why many of us 'council house brats' don't ever speak about our life experience

It's bragging
We were lucky to have brains
We were lucky to have a skill
We were lucky to have summink summink
Fings are different now
Blah blah blah

I'm tapping 60 now and will happily tell anyone who looks at us, cars, house, lifestyle and mutters anything even vaguely approximating "it's all right for you" to feel free to fuck off and find ways to replicate the hard graft we put in. You may not get the same results but you will get a better lifestyle and sense of achievement

And I really no longer care how some people choose to hear that. Be abuse I can absolutely guarantee that the vast majority of those moaning has ever had it as bad as we did growing up

This is about 100yards from where I was born, same year.

That looks like a rather different time and situation from what the OP describes. The OP is also sad they can't go on holiday this year despite feeling guilty for owning horses and a nice country pad.

You are totally missing the point still. I lived that life. It was awful. I now don't live that life but feel awful that others still do. I feel guilty that I have a nice life and others don't. It's actually a common feeling for people from my background in my position judging by many of the comments that say I understand OP, I feel the same way.

That's the whole point of this post. To find out if my feelings are normal/how to deal with them. Why dome people are hell bent on telling me I don't know what poverty is is bizarre and irrelevant. I've actually never heard people say poverty is normal for children get over it before. Apparently that's offensive to people still in poverty but not those who were born into hut don't live in it any more? Confusing.

I don't care much for holidays, I choose horses over holidays. I also chose a new bathroom over a holiday last year due to it being really old and not really functional and we chose IVF over holidays for two years before that. We'll hopefully go next year but if not oh well. Holidays are not a measure of how your daily life is. That's another point you missed.

I don’t think it helps that society seems to have a hatred for people who have money. Me and DH have money. We didn’t start out with money but have worked 7 days a week and often through the night for decades - damaging our health. As children we slaved over school - straight A students - and both went to Cambridge (nobody in either of our families had been to university). We then did professional qualifications whilst working. Evenings and weekends were spent studying.

Anyway. I don’t feel guilty about having money because we have half killed ourselves getting it. I am however quite withdrawn from society. I know I am hated so I prefer to completely disengage and be with my family and dog. People cite the “1%” as the problem - but in reality, me and DH have paid astronomical amounts of tax and taken almost nothing from the state. What we have taken is stuff like childbirth on the NHS and vaccinations.

What’s worse is that our children are considered “rich bastards”. They aren’t considered to be hardworking offspring of hardworking parents - they are just rich bastards who went to a private school. Both have 9x9 at GCSE because they worked until the work was done - no matter the time. People would just say: oh they went to private school and essentially bought those grades. No. They did not. There are kids failing Maths and English in their school. My kids worked exceptionally hard and sacrificed social stuff and earned the grades themselves.

My ds is white, male and ex private school. It is socially acceptable to consider him to be the scum of the earth. In fact, he’s hard working, kind and quiet. And probably ought to emigrate.

Well we should do more to celebrate success in this country alwsys seems to be the way to have to hide your success or not be proud of it whilst still being humble.

Also is it luck? Sometimes opportunities are presented to us and it can be fear ot other reasons we don't take them. That's not luck thats a decision we make not to take it or make the most of it when we are given it.

Also just to add. Hard graft is great and people who worked hard and have achieved whatever it was they wanted, whether that's a big house or life satisfaction or their dream job or whatever, then great! But lots of people work equally hard and can't get out of poverty. And some people would love to work hard, but can't.

I am from a tough background. I won't go into details. But I'm lucky now that like the OP, I have a nice house and can afford extra curricular activities for my children etc.. (I don't have horses because I'm not into horses! but I guess if I desperately wanted one we could make some adjustments to be able to save for one!)

However, one of my siblings was so traumatised by our upbringing they will never be able to leave their council owned flat for people with mental health conditions. They live in squalor with their MH difficulties making it impossible for them to accept help or offers of money or assistance from others. There are flies often in their home because they lack the skills and clear mind to be able to clean it or accept help to clean it. They hear voices daily that persecute them, that scream in their ears, and that stop them leaving their flat, let alone ever getting job

Sure, like millions of people I have worked hard in various jobs since the age of 12, and my work in a professional role now helps me pay for my current lifestyle. But my sibling works harder than I can ever imagine, just to survive every single day of their life.

I am not superior or better than anyone else because I have been fortunate enough to keep a good job. I am lucky. Our early trauma didn't fuck me up as much as my sibling. I went to a nice school. I had good friends at school and didn't fall off the edge into substances. I am relatively smart by some accident of genetics, so kept up in school and was able to get a degree. I got a grant for uni, I got my masters funded for me through my employer. I got a salary during my doctorate. I met a lovely man who is now my husband. Various employers took chances on me at various stages of my life

The OP is a bloody lucky woman who wants a pat on the back for her good fortune. I mean well done to her for working hard. Well done to her for using her privilege and opportunities to get what she wanted - horses and farm house. But I think she also needs a dose of reality and a bit of gratitude.

You absolutely deserve what you have, you've worked very hard for it. Also, sometimes hard work is not enough, sometimes it's simply luck or being more likeable (character), meeting the right people is a decisive factor in achieving success. But if you feel guilty, perhaps do some charity work if your success bothers you?

I recognise where you're coming from @SailorSerena. I've 'done well' for myself from humble beginnings too. The journey was bloody hard at times.

I think the feelings you're describing are rooted in the same psychology as survivor guilt - or at least that's the case for me. I recognise how despite all my hard work, a huge amount of my good fortune is just that - luck.

Luck that I kept my health and therefore the energy to keep going.

Luck that I have the mental resilience to keep kicking myself up after set backs (a huge amount of this is down to childhood).

Luck that I was intelligent enough and had enough family support that I can out with a good education which opened opportunities for me.

Luck that I had some material belongings to sell to finance the path which led to be trebling my income (I would not have been able to do it orherwise).

I've seen many equally deserving people (if not more so) fall at the various hurdles that appear for people 'like us' and I was just lucky that the ones that cropped up for me didn't end my progress.

When I'm feeling a little insecure that manifests as imposter syndrome. When I'm feeling more confident it's just an awareness to constantly be grateful for what I have and feel compassion and understanding for those who don't have it. Either way, I learned a long time ago to be more interested in people for who they are rather than what they do for a living.

People born into real wealth are raised with a sense of entitlement that success will be theirs for the taking. It can breed arrogance but it's also a trait that can contributes to good, strong leadership because they're not wasting time second guessing their decisions. People raised without that expectation can often feel slightly 'anomalous' or undeserving I think, and that's where the guilt comes from.

You feel guilty partly because of bitter, jealous arseholes like this who feel the need to drag other people down and make stupid, sarcastic comments, rather than celebrating other peoples achievements.

Really?

She says her early life was horrible

She seems to have done better than I have

I don't know her but am happy for her

I made different choices from some of the people I grew up with . I was careful and creative with money which now gives me a comfortable life style . Some of the people who had the same opportunities and income bracket as me chose to spend their money on bingo, gambling , takeaways , smoking. Fair enough their money their choice . The same people who are now complaining they have no
Pension or assets and calling me a Lucky Bastard . I made my Luck .

I'm not an expert in any way, but from what limited knowledge I do have of it, it's starting to sound a bit like Imposter Syndrome, the feeling people get that their lives should not be theirs? You should never feel guilty for achieving things you yourself have worked hard for. Has someone sayid something to make you feel guilty about it? out of jealousy probably? 🤷‍♀️