I really don't like my nephew

[Dellspoem]

He is living with us at the moment as a stop gap, we offered to help him out because things completely broke down at home and he had nowhere else to go. Hes 23 and the agreement was to live with us for a few months while he found a job and got back on his feet. That was back in August after he graduated.

He's just always trying to prove a point. He's always combative, argues with absolutely everything and doesn't respect anything I say - I'm an old person, a millennial, millennials are sad and pathetic (which is a whole thing with this generation). His entire belief system is based on what he sees online. He wakes up at 12, 1, 2pm every day. He hasn't found a job, and it's been six months. We've offered to get him in touch with our friend who works in his industry but no doesn't want to do that. Walks around with headphones in and can't hear us/ I think he's purposefully ignoring us. I suggested printing off CVs and walking up and down the high street giving it to restaurants and shops. He said no, that's so old fashioned no one does that anymore. Claiming universal credit and spending all day chatting to mates and playing games.

He doesn't get on with his parents (my brother and sister in law) and since he was a teenager I've said my doors are always open, I'm your aunty and I love you, that's what I'm here for. But bloody hell am I close to closing/ slamming those doors shut. He refuses to go back home, or to his grans, he just wants to live here. My husband has now asked him to start paying rent - £300 a month initially and increasing by 100 every month until it reaches market price.

His mum point blank refuses to have him back home. I'm sick and tired of her and her stupid offspring. I've just got to a point now I hate having him around. I hate seeing him in the 'morning' (today he woke up at 2.30pm) and casually came downstairs to ask how I am; DH is away and I am looking after my newborn and 2 year old. If (and when that was me) staying with my aunt I would have woken up early to help with the house and kids.

Urgh. And the worst thing is I'm now convinced I'm going to be a horrid mother to teenagers because I don't have patience for this.

Anyway AIBU let me hear your thoughts.

You have gone above and beyond as an Aunty and he is totally taking you for a ride. You say you have to same conversation every 2 weeks and nothing changes. Stop having the conversation and tell him to go. The rent game to try and smoke him out ..... what if he manages to borrow the money or sell something, he will still be mooching around your house making more work for you both.

Tell him to leave, don't fall for the crocodile tears - if he had been that upset he would have changed, got a part time job and taken you up on your contracts in his field.

No, you can't. Not really. You can think that you are, but ultimately everyone makes their own choices.

I would be really angry with your dh for telling him he can stay after all.

It’s kinder to him to tell him to go, otherwise your relationship is going to break down. You can still be supportive to him from a different address. Ultimately it doesn’t matter if he wants to stay. It’s not his choice and he’s taken advantage of your good nature.

He is taking financial resources away from your own children.

My MIL had similar with her grandson. She ended up giving him a month’s notice. It was hard but it had to be done.

He won’t accrue tenants rights, at most he’s a lodger (right now he’s basically a non paying guest). Even if he was paying rent unless he’s in a self contained unit then he’s just renting a room - he would merely need to be give “reasonable notice”.

Something must have gone very wrong , during his upbringing.
Does he need careers guidance? What does he want to do?
At this point, I would give him an ultimatum as he WILL be kicked out if he doesn’t shape up .

He may need someone to help with writing CV, or going back to study? Could he apprentice somewhere?
He may need very detailed help, it sounds like his own parents have let him down as he is so aimless.

He got really upset, started crying, was just genuinely distressed and sorry and DH said no you can stay.

DH shouldn't have said that without at least talking to you first. I bet he doesn't bear the brunt of nephew's behaviour, he's not the one being called sad and pathetic for being a millienial.

Tell DH that next time you tell nephew to leave he keeps his beak out or he'll be leaving too and they can find somewhere together.

And next time nephew calls you sad, point out that you are the one with a house, a family and a job (if you have, though you'll be on mat leave now), what does he have to be proud of?

He may look like a grown man, but his prefrontal cortex is still developing. He’s trying to work out how to be a man in a complicated and scary world.
I’m sure you’re frustrated and rightly so, and I don’t know what to suggest, but I think boys have a harder time of transitioning into adulthood.
Setting goals may help, but they have to be specific. Build step by step and praise the little bugger when he gets stuff right.

Stop being a mug and ignore the manipulative tears.

Tell him to move out, no discussion. You'll be doing him a favour in the long run as it's time for him to "adult".

Maybe she should get a reward chart and give him a sticker every time he flushes the toilet or eats his vegetables?

He’s 23. Plenty of men his age are in professional jobs, parenting kids, home owners, travelling the world. That prefrontal cortex is fine.

He’s not a teenager, he’s a grown arse adult who’s burnt his bridges. He needs to shape up or ship out. He’s had long enough.

So he hasn't been paying rent for the last 6 months? You mention "family meals every day" - are you cooking for him every day or does he take a turn? Does he contribute to groceries? What else are you doing for him? Are you doing his laundry? Making his bed? Tidying his bedroom?

You say that you now think you'll be a bad mother to teenagers, but he isn't a teenager, he is 23! Stop treating him like a child and make him grow up.

What are the expectations around the house? Around bills? Around chores? Around cleaning, cooking, going to the supermarket?

Are you helping him to prepare for life without you (making sure he cooks, budgets, cleans up after himself) or is he just another child?

Did you see the part where the OP said he had been staying with them since August when he graduated. He has studied, he would have had careers advice and CV writing skills had he searched them out. He is also refusing to make use of the OP's contacts in his chosen field.

I have no idea about his pre-frontal cortex but I do know that he is 23 and by that age I had been living independently in London for a year.

His mum doesn't want him home and from your description of his behaviour I understand why. When you say you're sick and tired of her and her offspring, do you really just mean her offspring and the fact she isn't making the mistake you did, or is there more backstory?

I think you need to have an honest conversation with DH where you tell him what needs to happen and give him a script that he cannot deviate from. Then he takes your nephew to the pub and has a man to man conversation that this cannot continue, that he needs to find somewhere else to live, and that you will help him in doing this within a realistic timeframe of say 3 months.

The minute he moves out he goes back to being his parents' issue if anyones. He is a man.

OP, you have been extraordinarily kind and accommodating to your nephew. But I think it’s time he left your house, for everyone’s sake. He needs to grow up and learn some necessary life lessons/skills. He won’t learn with you and your DH in parental mode.

This is very good advice, but I don't see why OP should do it, when she has a newborn & a 2yo. She has enough on her plate & no time, headspace or energy to spare. I think she should just get rid of him. She & her DH have gone above & beyond already.

I did see it, but he doesn’t seem to want to pursue that field… so what DOES he want to do?
Genuinely I would ask him this question.

what has gone wrong ? Is he plain lazy or depressed or addicted to gaming or what?

I’m not saying let him continue like this, but try to get to the root of the problem and give him an ultimatum to change.

Nephew, firstly, we love you. We do not love your behavior.
it’s been X weeks since we spoke out your moving on and being independent. You cried, that was uncomfortable and I realise that I need to ask about your mental health. Are you ok? Are you thinking out harming yourself?
If he says yes, put him in the car and bring him to A&E or GP.

If he says no. You starting writing on your pad of paper.
1.This is his much you already owe us.
2.This is the rent start on Date which has gone up, it included utilities, supplies, food you eat.
3.Show me your LinkedIn. Are you actively looking for job of LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor? Get your laptop, we are finding the job. Any job.
4.This household wakes up at Time. These are your daily chores.
4.I expect you to move out by Date. Start networking with your friends.

You are 23, with a degree. You are an overstayed his welcome guest. You need to take responsibility for yourself. You need to start with a job, any job. Minimum 35 hrs a week. You start work in 2 weeks maximum.
Nephew you will thank me for this, you must start moving out of my house.
Tell him take a photo of what you have written down so he doesn’t forget.

Ask him- what do you think is going to happen if you don’t follow the rules we have agreed?
His answer will tell you how much he cares.

Your stuff will be packed up and outside the front door, locks will be changed.

You are not being unreasonable to expect him to be polite and to not insult you. He sounds like a dickhead and there is no way I’d be insulted in my own home.

you are not being unreasonable to expect him to pay rent.

You ARE being unreasonable to expect him to help out with your kids. What 23 yr old wants to help out with someone else’s kids? I would have run a fucking mile at that age (which would do him good, cos he’d be a mile away and have to fend for himself which is what he needs to bloody do! He’s 23! Get a job and a grip).

You sound lovely Op 💐

I think you need to give him a three month deadline. But you and your dh need to be on the same page to start with. Emphasise that this was never a permanent arrangement, but short term support to get him on his feet. And as he has shown so little effort or initiative, support has turned in to enabling.

An extended adolescence, allowing him to take no responsibility for himself is not helping him. So for his sake; it’s time you draw a boundary.

Hmmm, I'd be slightly more generous than PPs as although his crying might be manipulative he might feel lost, depressed, and destabilised by the breakdown of the relationship with his parents. I think you need to be his stability, to a certain degree, by telling him that you love him and want him to stay but he's wasting his life away, and that's too hard for you to watch. Tell him you will support him in finding a job (does he have a driving licence, could he perhaps be an Amazon delivery driver, lots of people seem to get jobs easily) but things have to change or he will have to leave. Get DH to back you up on it. Give him a reasonable deadline and say you'll come back to the discussion then. He's probably picking up on your dislike of him and finding that destabilising- try to hide it, and be as calm and consistent as you can be. 'C, we agreed you'd wash up tonight but you haven't. It's really important to do this as ignoring what we've agreed undermines our trust in you and makes it more likely you'll have to leave, whi h I don't want. Please do the washing up now'. Ultimately young adults, even in their early 20s, are often still a bit immature. Hopefully consistent boundaries will help. If they don't, have the agreed conversation on date you said you would and tell him for your benefit and his he needs to leave.

As he's got mates, I would boot him out now. It's been six months. He is no further forward and he's a grown man.

Tell him he's out next weekend and tell your Dh to support you or you will bugger off and leave the pair of them.

You've been a saint to tolerate this shite.

How is he getting UC without applying for jobs? I thought people had to show evidence of doing this. Also they give help with cvs etc.
Has he ever worked OP? Part time jobs in retail or hospitality?

Maybe useful to get him doing some voluntary work in to get him into some sort of routine getting up in the morning.

He may look like a grown man, but his prefrontal cortex is still developing

HE'S TWENTY FUCKING THREE!

Honestly, I'm so sick of this 'not fully developed brain' thing that's trotted out on Mumsnet any time an adult refuses to adult. No wonder so many young adults can't function. There's always a mummy who'll say 'but he's not grown yet' (and yes, I don't think I've ever read that excuse made for a 23 year old woman).

At 23 my DH and I had professional jobs and a mortgage. This man won't even get out of bed. That's nothing to do with his pre frontal cortex, it's to do with him being lazy (and I imagine screen-addicted).
Meanwhile his peers are up, showered, dressed and on the way to their graduate jobs by 8am.

No, he actually is a full grown man. He doesn’t need a fully developed frontal cortex to get a job and be a mostly functioning person, otherwise the human race would’ve died out by now.

And exactly how much “working out how to be a man”, while sitting in his bedroom gaming, does he need to do? It’s getting a job, no one’s suggested he gets married, has kids or starts a business, a basic job is hardly a crushing adult responsibility.