Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

[ThisPinkWyvern]

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified.

The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison.

In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls.

When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

Why do you keep using an apostrophe in, "its"? You do realise that's a contraction of, "it is" and not a possessive?

Either way, trans men are biological women. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand.

I'm a bit confused here tbh. How is a transman suffering significant psychological trauma by being told to use a women's bathroom? How does being told to use the bathroom of their birth sex affect their sense of safety ? Women don't usually attack other women.

There is no ‘gender critical movement’ and it doesn’t have an ‘ideology’ - there are just people who don’t believe that humans can change sex.

Women who “identify as men” are welcome into women’s spaces because they’re still women and don’t pose the threat of that men do, because the they’re not men.

See, that was easy wasn’t it?

Also if people are “fearful, traumatised and living in terror” because others won’t pander and play along with their delusions then perhaps some introspection rather than expecting the rest of the world to change, may be a good starting point to deal with this. The second step is cutting the melodramatics. The only people who are allowed to have OTT tantrums when they don’t get their way are toddlers. Not grown adults.

It's not lived experience to pretend you are the opposite sex. A woman doesn't actually know what's it's like to be a man precisely because she has no lived experience as a man - and vice versa. Luckily the world has had enough of playing along with these trans people's fantasies.

I love it when a TRA comes on thinking they can school the silly wimmin of mumsnet and doesn’t realise that some of us very competently nailed our colours the mast many years ago, have come up against all manner of debate and insult, and have studied every fibre of society which is affecting by the regressive TRA mindset.

BTW the many people who’ve been assaulted by “transwomen” is most certainly not significant. You don’t get to erase people’s ACTUAL trauma in the name of another person’s fake trauma.

It reminds me of that lady in Washington DC who contained and a spiral 4C perm and claimed to be black. Or that British guy who said he was Korean. I mean, we could all claim to be skinny supermodels, or millionaires, but it doesn't make it reality.

Many women have internalised mysoginy, mental health issues and history of abuse that makes them want to distance themselves from their biological sex. You help them through therapy. Not by telling them that yes, they are men.

The sky is not green, no matter how many times you say it. Sorry.

Sometimes the truth is painful. But reality is reality. You don't help anyone by lying to them.

Jesus, not everything is about the bathroom. They aren't safe or wanted in America. A trans person I know was just asked by a maga guy if she had any spare bullets. Most trans people are trying to get on with there lives and mind there own business, but that doesn't grab headlines like the few that are benefitting from women's sports.

I do care about the wellbeing of people who identify as trans, and aa a society, I think we need to do a much better job of supporting them.

Specifically, we need much better specialist psychiatric support to help trans people come to terms with the reality that they can't actually change sex, no matter how much they might want to; to help them recognise and question the gender stereotypes that may have contributed to their confusion; and to support them effectively in addressing whatever underlying psychological difficulties caused them to identify as trans in the first place.

Nobody should have to live in fear, trans people absolutely deserve to be treated with kindness and compassion, and they should be able to access effective support. However, I don't think pandering to people's delusions is helpful for them in any way, so we do need to be genuine and honest in our dealings with them.

Also, no not all trans people are 'living in terror' in the USA.

Plenty of transsexuals like Buck Angel pointing out that the new age, trans'gender' narcissists who insisted on everyone else agreeing with their delusion, are spoiled brats and brought the regulation crack down on themselves.

As Buck says: 'this is why we can't have nice things!'.

Trans people existed freely and will continue to. All that's being cracked down on is entitlement. And child endangerment.

How does not pandering to the delusion they are the opposite sex make them unsafe and not wanted?

Also women are harrassed and threatened by men every day, pardon us if we don’t jump to worry about another demographic.

I think you're being unreasonable but you're fairly unintelligible, so it's hard to be sure.

If what you're trying to say is that transmen, who are actually women, use female bathrooms, they'll be in danger, then, no, I don't think so.

It's kind of tragic how obvious transmen are, with their cute little hands and feet, and wispy little beardlets.

Well of course actual transphobia like you have mentioned is horrific. The US seems to be a hotbed of bigotry at the moment towards many minority groups. We have issues with racism and ableism in Britain but I'm glad to be here not in America currently .

I don't think the problems in the US can be blamed on gender critical women (or men). It's fine to have separate spaces and not allow medically surgical transitioning until a child has grown up and has capacity to decide.I also think no one should be forced to comply with another person's pronoun or gender if they don't agree with it. I won't use he or she if it's not their biological sex, I might use they as a compromise . Harmless. No one is harmed and everyone's happy.

I think it's a question of picking our battles wisely . Stamping out bigotry and hate against trans men and transwomen, and making sure they are not facing abuse or discrimination is a cause worth fighting for. No one should be refused a job or housing or medical help for something on the grounds they they are trans or gay. But it's not discrimination to insist that biological sex isn't erased. We can't have people raping for example,.and then.allow them to change their identify so they can go to a women's prison for example . Of course the majority of transwomen and men are not criminals and most of them are happy to be honest about their biological identity of needs be. For example, most of them would not dream of starting a relationship with someone when they haven't transitioned and concealing their biological sex from the other person, as that would be an evil thing to do.

Why would trans men feel safer in the men’s toilets than the women’s? That doesn’t make any sense.

Not a fan of trump and his cronies, however it's also not actually possible to change sex so....

Total word salad (I hAte that phrase and never thought I’d use it).

In my opinion/experience, there is no reason whatsoever that women would be targeting trans men and making them feel unsafe.

The simplest solution is as it always was in the past and should be now. Utilise everything in life according to the sex you were born with - cba to list them, they’re bloody obvious really.

Am not going to waste more time on this thread though. The hyperbolic phrasing you use means that there’s no point wasting time on formulating sensible replies.

I agree with this 100%.

Trans women are men, and trans men are women, yes.

God knows what the rest of your post is about.

It’s always bad news when anyone mentions ‘lived experience’

The trouble is partly that the definition of transphobia has become too wide in some cases . For example if a lesbian won't date or sleep with a TW that is not real transitions IMO, that is a preference. It harms nobody.

Feeling unwanted and living in fear in America?.How do they think LGB and black people have been feeling there since time immemorial? Yet a lesbian is "transphobic" if she won't consider being with a TW.

America has a Gender Critical Movement? They kept that quiet. Who’s in charge of that then?

It is having one's lived experience denied that is responsible for the psychological trauma. It is bring gaslighted about the most fundamental aspect of one's being. Everytime the wrong pronoun is used, everytime a gender designation appears on an identity document that conflicts with an individuals innate experience of themself, everytime the individual has to walk into a changing room, public toilet, or hospital ward that conflicts with their innate experience of themself, every time they are referred to by a given name that conflicts with their innate experience of their self, a transgender person is being gaslit and emotionally abused.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.

The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis. Presence of penis = boy, lack of penis =girl. The designation of the sex of an individual on their birth certificate reflects the categorisation of the individual's sex according to this criteria.

If the biological sex of an individual cannot be changed then the results of using the same test to determine the sex of the individual at birth would remain unchanged no matter at what point the criteria was applied during an individual's life. If the same criteria is applied to a post op transgender woman her lack of a penis would mean that her biological sex would be determined to be female not male. Since the Gender Critical Movement's ideology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum- an individual without a penis and outer female genitals is by default designated female. A post op transgender woman is categorised as female therefore using the same criteria that categorised her as male at birth.

It is this simple basic logic that was responsible for the term transsexual being coined - so yes, an individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

Blah blah blah, no, humans cannot change sex.

They can change how they present themselves to the world and hope the world is kind enough to indulge their fantasy, but they cannot change sex.

A man who chops his penis off is just a man who has chopped his penis off.