Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

[ThisPinkWyvern]

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified.

The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison.

In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls.

When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

It is this simple basic logic that was responsible for the term transsexual being coined - so yes, an individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

Someone needs to go back to school.

denying the lived experience of people who look at transgender folk and recognise what they biologically are? That’s gaslighting.

call yourself what you will - don’t ask others to deny reality because of your feels.

There are a few problems with other people’s sense of ‘I’.
How you think about yourself doesn’t change other people’s perceptions of you.

It Can’t impose on other people- your inner sense can’t change the words I use, just the ones you use. It also can’t change history. My brother throughout my childhood is still my brother, regardless of how he dresses or his sense of I.

Adults who bully their children think of themselves as disciplinarian, authoritarian, good parents.

At the extreme end, very few rapists identify as rapists. They tend to think what they did was ok- persuasion, following through, assertive, pushy. They don’t like to think of themselves as rapists, just as people who like to get what they want, h get their own way, be successful, winners.
women are raped by men who don’t identify as rapists.

It's not 'Gender critical movement ideology' it's called Biology & Scientific fact.

There are 2 sexes & they have been separated in some situations eg public toilets due to risks posed by 1 sex to the other. Many women were raped & assaulted & fought to get that safety for the rest of us. Don't try to undo that just to validate a minority who have been brainwashed into an unscientific ideology.

I kind of feel that the trans movement has scored a bit of an own goal

Like a child who starts pushing a boundary, then pushes some more, more and more and more before eventually being told they have pushed it too far and are now being grounded

The movement has Trumped themselves. Had it remained moderate and respectful of other people's thoughts and feelings rather than demanding 99% change to accommodate the 1% then Trump may not have been voted in. He is the result of the 99% saying enough

I am no Trump fan - I think he is a dangerous narcissistic idiot same as I feel about Farage but I can see how his being voted in came about

Err, fear and terror of what?

Trump hasn’t made it legal to kill or do things that terrify people has he?

Hasn’t banned being a trans man or woman? Trans people can go about their lives as trans people, but are legally their sex, not gender.

I am legally my sex not gender. Which in reality has also led to being terrified, on occasion, by the other sex.

GC isn’t an ideology. It is simply basing life on the reality of sex rather than the cultural manifestation of gender.

I'm afraid it was inevitable that reality would bite the trans movement.

You all have yourselves to blame whipping each other up into a state of high anxiety that words are "literal violence".

You all pushed too far. Sports, prisons, rape crisis centres, dv shelters. All places where women and girls have suffered actual harm because of males in places they have no business being.

There was never any empathy for the women and girls suffering actual harm, for their lived experience, for their terror, the psychological harm from being coerced an gaslit into undressing in front of makes against their will and consent.

So why you expect empathy because you have to have the correct sex on your passport is beyond me.

Very well said

Also… this is a UK site. We didn’t vote for Trump, and as a GC woman I wouldn’t have voted for him even if he does support GC principles. He is a pussy grabbing misogynist whose wider policies are detrimental to too many Americans and the world and would never have got my vote.

And the millions of women and children being harmed by treating male people as female people?

Your dismissal of the harms to overall society is remarkable.

I am looking forward thought to the insights your thread will bring.

This

If you have the head space to ponder your "innate sense of self" and are paralysed by fear and anxiety because somebody uses a wrong pronoun, then you are privileged beyond belief.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.

///

I mean c'mon, you are just taking bollocks right now

You say, “It is having one's lived experience denied that is responsible for the psychological trauma.”

But when women see a man and are told that’s a woman- even if this person raped them, the most male of all crimes- you are saying that it’s best practice for this woman to have her experience denied? Or even day to day sharing a changing room at work with someone who is trying to inseminate their wife at home, while also claiming to be a woman at work? That’s best practice, for you; but for trans identified people, it’s emotional abuse and gaslighting. Ironically, gaslighting actually means telling a person that their perception of reality is wrong when it’s actually correct, so the individuals doing the gaslighting are the trans people insisting that they’re the opposite sex.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.

This bit is true, which is why it’s madness to base legislation on such a subjective thing. Anyone could claim to “be” the opposite sex- even creepy men who just want to ogle women, or be in spaces where women gather. Who on earth would think that was a sensible idea??

individual can change their biological sex and a post op transgender woman is therefore a biological woman.

Don’t be ridiculous. Is Wayne Bobbit a woman now because his Mrs lopped his knackers off?
As well as ridiculous it’s very dangerous in a medical context. Men and women have very different requirements for safe levels of things like nutrients, tolerance to drugs, hormones that indicate healthy liver function, symptoms of heart attack, that sort of thing. We are not like fish which can change sex, or butterflies that used to be a caterpillar. We are mammals and what we’re born as is what we’ll be till we die.

Modern debate for the identity obsessed:

’I identify as X and I demand that all my associated demands are met and my beliefs are not questioned’

’OK cool, You can identify as what you want but you can’t force other people to accept your demands or beliefs’

’YOU WANT US ALL TO DIE I’LL JUST KILL MYSELF THEN AND IT WILL BE ALL YOUR FAULT’

“Deep psychological fear and abject terror”: please switch the news on and see what’s going on in the world. Then learn the difference between it’s and its. Have A Nice Day!

It is having one's lived experience denied that is responsible for the psychological trauma. It is bring gaslighted about the most fundamental aspect of one's being.

A bit like a man telling me he knows what I've been through as a woman, because he "thinks" he's one? You cannot understand for a second what 'trauma' or 'gaslighting is' until you've been the actual victim in this absolute fucking chaos, women are the victims in this, not the grubby and greedy men.

The last 10 years in a nutshell.

It wouldn’t be so bad if we could just eye roll at the tantrum, but that argument has been the basis for the sterilisation of children. Adults have had tantrums, and children have had their breasts removed as a result.

hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.

I haven't read the whole thread (will go back and read) but can you back this claim up? Hundreds of thousands, really?

@GargoylesofBeelzebub agree with your post completely, time for the TRA to " reframe their trauma"

I have no issue with a man wearing a dress, putting on make-up and calling himself Susan...what I do have an issue with is by doing that, he somehow becomes a woman. If he wants to play dress-up that's fine but demanding that I should play along with it to satisfy his ego? nope, not happening. My view is the same towards a woman expecting me to go along with the pretence that she is a man btw.

Organising society around the subjective experience of “I” is probably the most batshit way or organising anything since the dawn of human civilisation.

Fully agree. Completely decoupling a sense of self from the reality of the world is literal madness! It means that we have to accept the hallucinations of someone suffering from schizophrenia as being as “real” as the objects I’m seeing with my own eyes.

Also, completely decoupling a sense of self from the reality of the world is the root of evil… It also justifies all manner of crimes… For instance, if “I” feel someone is subhuman because they are Jewish, then who is anyone to object? If only “I” matters, and my subjective experience is satisfied by abusing children, then so who is anyone to criticise?

I agree with this.

You think the (increasing) number of attacks on women by men can and should be dismissed?

Typical misogyny.