Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

[ThisPinkWyvern]

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified.

The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison.

In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls.

When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

This is a question for OP and anyone else who supports male inclusion into female single sex spaces if a male person has had surgery:

What exactly is the difference between a male who has had their penis and testicles removed due to injury or disease and a male person who elects to have them removed for their identity?

I am very much looking forward the evidence supported answers to this question. Thanks in advance.

Gender identity refers to how an individual experiences their "I". Nobody else but the individual him/ herself has access to a person's "I'. This "I" which we all have is the most fundamental experience of who "I" am. Absolutely nobody else can tell us how we should experience our sense of "I' because it is a subject and falls outside the domain of objective inquiry.
The almost universal criteria used historically to identify the biological sex of an individual at birth is the presence or lack of a penis. Presence of penis = boy, lack of penis =girl. The designation of the sex of an individual on their birth certificate reflects the categorisation of the individual's sex according to this criteria.If the biological sex of an individual cannot be changed then the results of using the same test to determine the sex of the individual at birth would remain unchanged no matter at what point the criteria was applied during an individual's life. If the same criteria is applied to a post op transgender woman her lack of a penis would mean that her biological sex would be determined to be female not male. Since the Gender Critical Movement's ideology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum- an individual without a penis and outer female genitals is by default designated female. A post op transgender woman is categorised as female therefore using the same criteria that categorised her as male at birth

This is such scrambled garbage! Firstly, sex is usually identified at birth. The biggest indicator of sex at birth is usually the genitals (only around 0.02% of babies’ sex is ambiguous at first glance and needs further testing to ascertain). However, it’s not just the genitals that make the sex. As an example, the guy years ago who had his penis bit/cut off was still a man afterwards, as is a man who has to have his penis removed due to cancer. Their male sex is encoded in every cell in their body. The fact they’ve lost part of their genitals doesn’t change that. Thus a transwoman who has their penis removed remains a male.

Back to your first point. A person’s sense of “I” is fine but sometimes reality is important. As an example, I in no way feel or look my age. I sometimes knock a few years off. However, if I’m filling in a form to get a new passport, I’m not entitled to put my ‘how I feel” age in, I need to, and do, put my actual age and date of birth. Likewise, I can’t ‘feel older’ than I am and claim my pension. Facts matter.

As to what you said about trans people living in fear, a lot of that fear comes from the very movement that’s supposed to be supporting them. This modern ‘trans’ movement has spread the idea that everyone hates them, and has played on the fears of vulnerable people, particularly the young, who are often dealing with additional trauma. Of course, there are always a few nasty people, but the vast majority of people don’t hate trans people or wish them harm.

The modern ‘trans’ movement has caused a lot of problems for trans people. The trans people I know in the U.K. hate it. They have no wish to impose on others, to live a life of perpetual victimhood, or to deny their sex. The movement speaking in their name is abhorrent to them. Trans people used to be able to live relatively worry-free lives, now these ridiculous demands and the huge proliferation of ‘trans’ youngsters who are nothing of the sort has ruined things for them.

People with sex dysphoria need support. The hangers-on who’ve politicised this and turned it into a Tumblr inspired pile of crap are the ones you should be blaming, not the vast majority of people, both trans and not, who understand that sex is real.

Trans men are definitely female, there is no getting around that.

Oh dear OP. You’ve really come
to the wrong place to spout your misogynistic manifesto. Of course you won’t listen to any of the informed and rational responses you receive because you are so entrenched. A pity, you have a lot to learn.

Agreed. The problem arose when those with narcissistic tendencies gained prominence in the trans movement, and their progressive allies were too “kind” to push back.

A post op transgender woman still has a biological male's aggression level, crime level, heigth, strength, and unfounded sense of entitlement. They are NOT women.

I would also like to point to the Trans Widows Escape Committee threads on Mumsnet. By some pure coincidence it is pretty damn obvious that ever single one of their husbands are autogynephilliacs. Why in all blazes of hell should women consent to participate in their immersive roleplay when they (the women) are being included in it without warning and without any consideration for their own preferences?

Rule number one for a kink is that you may only include other people after they have consented.

I am gender critical. This means I'm a sex realist who knows that trans women are men and trans men are women. I'm not part of any big "movement" that wants to kill them off.

What they feel about themselves in their heads is their business, it doesn't mean I hate them or wish any harm on them. I just refuse to partake in their fantasies about themselves. I've met several, and treated them all with respect and a friendly approach the same as I would anyone else - and I have no reason to use their chosen pronouns in front of them, so it's never caused any issues.

So whilst I agree with Donald Trump on that point, I also think he's a megalomaniac nutter and I disagree with him on most other issues. I also don't think he has women's rights at heart, I think he just used it as a vote winner.

It's fact not ideology, you are either male or female. The damage is telling people it is possible to to change.

I do wonder what would have happened if the transgender movement hadn't been so aggressive. If there hadn't been a 'cotton ceiling', or a male person telling feminists on the women's march that they weren't allowed to equate woman with female, or balaclava-clad young men trying to shut down feminist meetings with physical force. Or pronoun declarations mandated in workplaces, or school kids being told they might be in the wrong body, or male criminals accused of violent, sexual offences being referred to as women in court and in the press. What if the movement had been gentler and smaller scale... I'm sure in the long term it would have won more people over.

I’m not sure I agree with your opening post. I think it’s more nuanced than that. I think plenty of GC people believe the lived experience of genuinely trans identifying people, and that trans men are trans men and trans women are trans women. The issue comes with single sex facilities, as trans women are not biologically female there is an issue with access to women’s single sex spaces. And an issue that relates to the superior strength of biological males over biological females. The solution is a third space but that is rejected by many trans women.

I also think that the conflation of trans people as a single homogeneous population is problematic. The needs of TW and TM are different, and TM don’t as a general population present a threat to biological women. At the same time, several TW don’t pose a threat because they do not wish to harm women, but some TW do as their identities as TW is partly about gratification and ‘passing’ and anyone not playing along is vulnerable to aggression.

And then you have the significant population of violent men who later identify as female to play the prison system. The court reporting alone is problematic as using female identities and pronouns in the reporting desensitises the population and spreads misinformation that female perpetrators of violent crime are on the increase.

So you think 99% of the population should accommodate people who obviously need the help of mental health services?
Trans men are women. Always have been, and always will be. If the Biden administration didn't pander to this stupid ideology, the number of people that recently transitioned, would be much lower and would have been save from this "trauma". Blame Biden. Blame the pandering of the media, blame the teachers and the doctors spreading this nonsense.
For once Trump is right.

No, the claim that one percent of the population is trans comes from a British survey that used a vocabulary that was hard to understand. Especially for foreigners. When researchers noticed that the level of trans identified individuals was much higher in areas with many foreigners they became suspicious and sent out a new survey asking about the same subjects but with a clearer language. The new survey indicates that the number of trans identified individuals is much much lower than one percent.

Sex is a genetically determined developmental pathway along only one of two lines, either male or female. You cannot go backwards on that pathway.

Female = developed to produce large immobile gametes (whether or not she actually does produce them)

Male = developed to produce small motile gametes (whether or not he actually does produce them)

Sex in mammals is one of the true binaries.

People with developmental sex disorders (DSDs) are either male or female. There is no third sex, there is no third gamete.

The vast vast majority of "trans" people are NOT people with DSDs and so bringing those people into the argument as many TRAs do is a strawman. "Trans" people are normal males or females who simply wish they were not and want to be the opposite sex.

Interesting to note that "trans" are always identifying from one to the other, maintaining the binary of sex while insisting sex is not binary.

Sex is important for humans because males and females are on average quite different. Males are generally bigger, stronger and faster. They pose significant risk to the safety of females in specific situations. This is why women fought so hard for our own spaces, facilities and sports. It's why feminists in the 1970s worked to create rape crisis centres and domestic violence shelters. Sex, not gender. It matters, especially to women's safety, dignity and privacy.

The problem with self identification that trans rights activists want, and the problem with "believe me when I tell you who I am" is if they get what they want then ANY MAN including predatory men can self id into women's spaces, violating our rights, safety, dignity and privacy. ANY MAN INCLUDING PREDATORS. And as there is NO objective way to identify any "true trans" person from a predatory male, women are vulnerable. Making life easy for predators to predate on women and girls.

The utter refusal of the TRAs to acknowledge this fact, this very simple logic, is why Trump has been elected.

This is on YOU op.

Have you heard of chromosomes, my love?

So, in real life, what happens when a trans man who looks and acts like a man walks into a female toilet. How do others in there know they are trans and not just an actual biological man? Do they have to announce they are trans on entering the toilet to whoever is there? Or just ignore the other users?

Absolutely nothing because most women can correctly sex others more easily than men can. Its height, stature, gait, emotional presentation.
A transman would be read as a butch presenting female not a potential threat.
They might get a second glance to check then everybody would just go about their business.

Just thinking this a bit further. It isn’t just GC people who think trans men are women. Everyone knows it to be true- even the transmen themselves.

You, OP, know that TWAM and TMAW and that you are mangling language and your own brain to recite the Catechism.

You cannot square it’s so damaging to be told they’re [correct sex] with the fact they do actually know their correct sex.

You are living by lies, and not little white lies of kindness, but nasty lies which cause way more damage to people than reality ever can do. You are a virtue signalling user, and can’t believe that other people have sufficient integrity to stick to reality, regardless of your slurs and scolding.

I'm just so please that as a long time GC feminist I'm not in away ties to the side that sterilises queer, traumatised or ND people for profit.

Utter nonsense - but thanks for giving us a laugh.
The only ‘lived experience’ a person who claims to be the opposite sex has, is that they are one sex but are pretending to be the other. Males cannot have ‘lived experience’ of being female and vice versa. Sex is determined at conception and is immutable. Men who have had their penis removed are still men. Women who have had their breasts removed are still women.
Pronouns belong to the person using them - compelled speech is coercive and controlling. Don’t try to tell me to deny reality dear.

Trans-ideology seems to have cratered remarkably quickly. It was only in 2023 that Dylan Mulvaney won “woman of the year” and fronted a Bud-light marketing campaign!

"Democrat Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers has introduced a bill that will change state law to replace the word "mother" with "inseminated person."

This bollocks right here is why Trump won the election.

@ThisPinkWyvern

While this is going to be a great thread to discuss the actual harms to those female people who have a transgender identity if they are treated as if their philosophical belief that they are male was material reality, I suspect your posts are actually more about leveraging those female people to validate male people with transgender identities.

There are significant issues that female people face if they are treated as if they were male, and this is a great thread to discuss those. Such as putting female people in male prisons. Another is the inherent discrimination that comes with female people taking testosterone never going to have fair competition in an open or the male sports categories, and at least a discussion could be had around whether those female people need a special sports category just for them,

Another major issue to discuss is to highlight lack of symmetry in the brutality of the surgeries that female people are being encouraged to undergo in pursuit of making their bodies fit a philosophical belief vs the still brutal but less life limiting and potentially less life shortening medical experiences that male people undergo?

I mean, I have not seen a male equivalent of the ‘yeet the teets’ promotional activity with doctors holding buckets filled with breast tissue as if it was a grand achievement. Or was there an ‘unstick the dick’ or something as pithy as yeet the teets that has been used to commoditise brutal elective surgeries?

Shall we discuss the care of detransitioners too?

This is going to be a great thread. The needs of those female people are very important and so often used as leverage and dismissed by extreme trans activists. And by extreme trans activists, I mean those who demand that gender is prioritised over sex when sex matters in that situation. Which seems to be your position, but please correct me if I am wrong.

So you are arguing that trans men should be treated as though they are biological men? So that means they should be expected to compete against biological men in sport, go to men's prisons, use men's toilets and changing rooms? You don't see any issues with the above and believe this is the best way to support the safety and dignity of trans men?

well said! 👏

Hi OP you are talking piffle.