Trans men are women according to Gender Critical Movement

[ThisPinkWyvern]

Under Trump's transgender policy, which echoes the ideology of the Gender Critical Movement, trans women are men and trans men are women. This view denies and rejects as worthless and baseless the lived experience of millions of men and women in the US who identify as trans. As a result of having their lived experience of themself ignored and denied by law, millions of trans men as well as trans women are now experiencing deep psychological trauma and living in abject fear and terror in the US. Many are trying to leave the country because they are so terrified.

The almost total silence of the Gender Critical Movement and it's supporters about the effect that it's ideology has had on those hundreds of thousand of women who self identify as men is deafening.It's whole argument about banning trans women from female public toilets and other ' women only spaces' is based on the argument that denying trans women the right to access these spaces is needed to protect the safety of women and girls. Given the fear, terror and trauma that hundreds of thousands of women( trans men) are now experiencing in the US, as a result of the government putting into practise Gender Critical Movement ideology, the sense of safety and well-being of hundreds of thousands of women has been devastated. This makes the infinitesimally small number of cases where women have been or ever would be assaulted by a trans woman in a women only space pale into insignificance by comparison.

In short, the Gender Critical Movement is directly responsible for harming the well being of hundreds of thousands of WOMEN according to it's own ideology.The damage done by implementing it's ideology makes a sickening mockery of it's claim that it's ideology protects the safety of women and girls.

When the number of men( trans women) in the US who are now living in fear and terror in the US is taken into account as well, the Gender Critical Movement and all those who support it are directly responsible for terrorising millions of people. It is impossible to claim that we are supporting women's rights and protecting the safety of women if we support the Gender Critical Movement.

A trans woman is a man, whether they have a penis, chop off their penis, or have their penis carved up and turned inside out to make a pretendy vagina.

They are born men, and will die as men, as you cannot change biological sex.

No one's sex is determined by one's chromosomes, quite simply a Y chromosome means you are male.

Some baby boys are born with the SRY gene mutation which means they do not develop male sex organs, however this does not make them female.

Wrong.

1. Trump is a cunt.

2. Humans can't change sex. Transwomen are men, transmen are women.

3. Everyone deserves to be safe, without infringing on the safety of others.

So if a TW applies for a job with a rape crisis organisation and they are told that women who've recently been SA may feel uncomfortable or even full on triggered with a male bodied person dealing with them either on the phone or in person, instead of becoming upset and feeling downtrodden by being told no, why can't they set up their own trans crisis centres and refuges? I mean, why does their trauma come before that of the clients they are supposed to be helping?

Dear lord, so because I had cancer and have no breast anymore I’m a man? Thank fuck no!

Also, I have as much right to understand my ‘I’ as they do theirs, so someone shoving down my throat their ‘I’ means that my experience is being denied and is causing me psychological trauma.

Also, millions in the US?

Indeed, women had to fight to get services for rape survivors and other victims of sexual assault and domestic violence. Transwomen could fight for their own services, but that wouldn't validate them as women. Which, as we all know, is much more important than women's actual safety.

A man who chops his penis off is a man who needs as much psychological support as a man who chops his arm off, because his ‘I’ envisions himself without arms.

Shouldn't laugh, but there have been instances of people wanting healthy limbs removed because they have an inner sense of themselves as disabled. They really need help.

It is the chromosomes that determine sex. Not the genitals. And because it is the chromosomes that cause specific genitals to develop, it is why people are registered as male or female at birth without having to resort to DNA tests. In the rare cases where there is a mismatch between the genitals and the chromosomes, sex is determined by the chromosomes.

Therefore, no matter what genitals you are born with or what you do to them in later life, your sex won't change because your chromosomes can't change.

@ThisPinkWyvern so who do I complain to about the horrific emotional abuse I am suffering from the following:

My utility companies who won't accept that I identify as someone who doesn't pay bills and keep sending me horrible invalidating and traumatizing letters threatening credit agency and bailiff action.

My bank who won't accept my true identity as a billionaire and are refusing to let me withdraw billions.

My doctor who won't accept my identity as a slim person with healthy blood pressure and cholesterol levels. They simply gaslight me constantly about how I am obese. How dare they ?!! They are abusing me.

OP will never be back.

Men can't be women and women can't be men.

Hope this helps.

Hard to know where even to start with this one. It's such a pile of strawman waffle.
It pretty much lumps in left leaning feminists supporting women's rights with right wing Trump supporters on the flimsy basis that both have criticisms of the trans movement and both know that female people exist. Not the same thing and if you think they are, then you've got no clue as to what the actual arguments are.
As a very basic primer:
Trumpism/traditional conservatism:
~believes sex matters, believes in gender stereotypes
Gender critical feminism:
~believes sex matters, rejects gender stereotypes
Trans activism:
~rejects sex, promotes gender stereotypes

Both Trump and trans activism have serious sexism problems.

It's a shame that the Trumpists only know what a woman is because they want to control her.

"Also, millions in the US?"

https://usafacts.org/articles/what-percentage-of-the-us-population-is-transgender/

It is estimated that thr population of transgender individuals in the US is about 1% of the population. This equates to about 2. 3 million people.

So it’s “gaslighting” to tell a trans identifying person they’re still the sex they are and that’s bad, but when that person wants to pretend to be something they’re not by gaslighting the rest of the world, that’s good?

Makes about as much sense as the rest of gender ideology.

People can subjectively experience their “I” however they want. They just can’t expect the rest of the world to agree with something that is objectively something else.

Trans identifying male thinks he’s a woman. He can’t force the rest of us to agree when it’s objectively not true and organise society and legislation around his subjective experience of “I”.

Organising society around the subjective experience of “I” is probably the most batshit way or organising anything since the dawn of human civilisation.

OK I will bite because I am in a bad mood.

What does “lived experience” mean in this context? No male can have the same lived experience of a female and visa versa. They have different organs, different levels of strength and different hazards they experience in life.

How possibly can a male “feel like a woman” and how can a woman “feel like a man” other than based on gendered and sexist stereotypes.

I can understand if someone doesn’t feel “like a man “ if they are male because of the sexist nature of society they don’t fit into the accepted stereotype of males in their culture, but saying I need access to female spaces because I “feel” like a woman doesn’t work because you are not a woman.

OP is mixing up two things.

One is having feelings. Sure, you're the only one who knows what those feelings are like. (And by the same token, you don't know what feelings other people are having, so how you know you feel "like a man" is a bit of a mystery, but that's another story.)

The second thing is what place those feelings should have in the outside world. And since, as soon as we're in the outside world, there is at least the potential for a clash with other people's wishes, needs and rights, it is not a foregone conclusion that you should get everything you want. If you don't, you are not being "gaslit". You are simply learning that (as my mother used to say) you are not the only pebble on the beach.

Are you drunk?

Plenty of trans people don't believe men are women. And vice versa. (They are just coping with their mental health issues in the best way that works for them). They naturally, resent being considered entitled aresholes like the new age lot.

Lesbians and transsexuals have been being silenced and erased and had their rights violated by this movement. Where was your outcry for them?

Or for the children who have been brainwashed into thinking they are trans?
Told that they can't be a tom boy or a boy who likes feminine things anymore. Had underage surgery. Been taken from their parents. Had to detransition and then be shunned by people who they thought were their friends. Been lied to about puberty blockers not being harmful. Where was your offence at that?

Or the women who have been abused and gaslighted into internalised mysoginy to such an extent that they feel like they want to crawl out of their own skin - and grasped onto this ideology thinking it to be a saftey net.

Or the sportswomen that trained their whole lives only to have a biological man steal their spot and their livelihoods.

The movement is rank rotten.

And thats not the fault of every individual because a lot of them fall under the above, abused, gaslighted and lied to at their most vulnerable.

But the new age trans activism movement as a whole is lying, narcissistic, abusive and brainwashing.

They've set women rights back decades.

And ironically, they've set trans rights back too. They can arguably blame themselves for trump as lots of people probably figured he was the lesser evil. Ironically, they may even be correct.

You're not arguing for freedom, your arguing for entitlement. People are free to think whatever they like about themselves. They shouldn't be free to make other people lie about agreeing for fear of reprisals. That's not democratic. It's like something the nazis would do. Or, a cult. Which it is. Wake up and smell the coffee.

If I was trans, I'd rather people had the decency to be honest with me. And to tell me if I was making them uncomfortable. I wouldn't want my fellow women to feel scared in my presence. I wouldn't want to take their safe spaces. Plenty of trans people are good people. But this new age version are like spoiled little children. And people have understandably had enough.

Very well said!

Trans men are indeed women. There are not all that many trans men who (for example) seek a transfer to the male prison estate. Because that would be insane. And even if they did, I doubt the prison estate would even consider it, for safety reasons.
Far too many trans men have significant co-morbidities, a past of sexual abuse or trauma, or otherwise want to "escape" the realities of being female.

The people doing the most harm to trans people, whether MtF or FtM, are not Donald Trump or, heaven forfend, Mumsnetters. That accolade goes to the trans rights activists, the ones who are making all the noise and all the demands. The trans people I know (2 MtF) just want to get on quietly with their lives. They aren't the ones* insisting that Lia Thomas should be allowed to swim in the women's category, or a 6foot male aged 30 be allowed to play in a girls' football team with teenage girls, or a rapist who raped as a man but now demands to be in a women's prison just because they want to for validation.

*in fact they are very much against those demands

And that brings me to a point I feel very strongly about. Any man who says he feels like a woman, but sees nothing wrong and indeed celebrates the 6 footer playing in the girls' team or the rapist in a women's prison, does not feel like a woman. They are demonstrating an overwhelming sense of male entitlement.

For centuries, and probably since time began, some of those people with a penis (in general parlance referred to as men) have used their penis as a weapon to control, humiliate and damage women. Most abusers are men who abuse women. Anyone who claims to feel like a woman but fails to acknowledge those facts has no idea of the fear that women can feel. There is no solidarity with their claimed sisterhood, only a self centred and self serving wish to impose their will on others.

I have no ill will towards people like my friends. I will defend them. Because they are not trying to assert male dominance over women. They just are who they are.

But if you want trans people to feel safe, you need the TRAs to back off. Don't make the lives of my friends more dangerous to satisfy to the nth degree your own ideology.

the Gender Critical Movement's ideology Biology declares that sex is binary - there is no spectrum

You've discovered a spectrum of biological sex? Wow! Does it apply to all life, all animals, all mammals or only humans?

Here's the hypothesised sex spectrum. Does your astounding discovery conform to the hypothesis?

The fact that you spew dangerous Gender Ideology talking points and ignore the profound effect this cult has on the rights of women and girls says a lot. You're brainwashed. And you have no concern whatsoever for the sex-based rights under your dangerous ideology.