Rejected by old boss - argh!

[Greengreengrassblueblueskies]

Name changed for this. I’ve spent the evening feeling very sorry for myself!

A few years ago I worked for a very long time for my old boss as his PA. I always did a good job and got great feedback/reviews and when he moved departments we kept in touch (I stayed in my old role as how our company is structured he couldn’t “take me with him”)

We have kept in touch and I’d actually say we are good friends and also colleagues.

He recently got a promotion to a newly created role and internally they advertised for a PA for him. So I applied and interviewed with him (and another person from his team on the panel). I thought I’d be great and a good fit given I know him and I know his new area he’s been promoted to.

And then at 5pm, I got a rejection email from HR. No feedback. Nothing. To make matters worse, we have spoken since the interview (about normal things unrelated to work).

I feel SO sad. I really wanted to work for him again and he always says how much he loved working with me…so why not give me the job?! Ergh.

AIBU for feeling this way?

Not necessarily. I was in a similar situation once and didn’t rehire the ex colleague even though we knew them, liked them, knew they could do the job standing on their head. But at interview another person blew us away. It was a hard decision. But the new person was very good when they started so our gut feeling to take the risk on an unknown was right. Being rejected doesn’t necessarily mean he thought you were bad previously, just that maybe there was someone else who was slightly better.

If he's worthy of continuing to be your friend, he will explain himself to you rather than let an icy communication from HR do the talking. I think it's quite likely that he's decided the more informal relationship he enjoys with you now would be difficult to transfer back into the workplace. This seems more likely to me than him thinking you are intrinsically not up to it.

Besides which, are you sure he doesn't actually find you attractive? I can see what has happened stemming from this. I won't say you're too hot for the spot but maybe he likes being friendly in the way you are now and does not want to return to office formality.

Well obviously there was a better candidate.
No-one is obliged to give a person a job, particularly if they have a social, out-of-work relationship. You've been presumptios, @Greengreengrassblueblueskies .
Also why would you want to report to a 'friend'? There will comexa day when he needs something doing NOW, may be curt with you, then you're wondering why 'my friend shouted at me at work', etc, etc...
So a lesson to learn. You shouldn't expect favour. After all, if you'd applied for a job, didn't get it and found out it went to the person's 'friend', you'd likely be down to HR screaming "unfair"...

Ask hr for feedback rather than putting him in an embarrassing situation.
Are you new to working/young?

There could be all sorts of reasons why you didn’t get the job.

But just wanted to say that I do actually think you’ve been treated quite badly, in terms of the way your rejection was handled, as an internal candidate and especially one who is already well known to him. I’m an HR Manager and I would be horrified if I heard of anyone doing this. The better approach would be, in my view, for him personally to email you and say something like “I’m sorry to have to let you know that you were unsuccessful in applying for the role. Would you like to meet next week and I can give you some feedback?” The reason for meeting “next week” is that you have had time to get over your initial shock and upset. You could just decline to meet, if you wish.

And to be honest, there might not be much feedback to be had. But it’s more about keeping the relationship intact and treating you as if you are a valued member of staff.

Even when the candidate isn’t already known, my expectation would be that hiring managers decline those who have been interviewed themselves. The generic HR email is only for those who weren’t interviewed (or possibly to close the loop for someone who was interviewed, after they’ve already had a personal email or phone call).

Look, he hasn't rejected you personally.
This is work.
This is why work/friendship relationships do not work.
Find another job, get some life experience.
Be grown up and continue your friendship outside of work and do not discuss the interviewxwith him. His ambivilence towards you applying was a big sign that you shouldn't - he isn't allowed to tell you not to apply, and obviously thought that you' would work out that business and pleasure don't work, therefore not apply.

Assuming this is private sector where despite whatever fair processes a corporate has put in place there is also quite a bit of flex in hiring decisions.
Your ex boss has probably thought strategically about how he needs this role to operate and you may not be the best fit for that, however you worked together previously.

Or it could be that the exec you are currently working for has made it clear they don’t want you poached and for political reasons your boss is respecting that.

Or maybe he’s seen a D&I challenge in the makeup of the PAs and has hired a man. This is something I am still waiting to see happen even once in my ftse 100 corporate! I’m sure there must be some but I never encountered anyone not female.

You can ask for feedback but I’d strongly suspect you’re going to get you were very good but someone else was stronger, displayed capability to do x better etc and still be left feeling short changed and like you don’t have full insight into his thinking.

I'm afraid it's a really presumptuous error to think the job is yours just because you know him.
So many people make this mistake.

He will only be thinking of himself and how his PA reflects on him.
Often people move on and upwards and want to project a new image without reference to old jobs and in jokes etc

I'm wary of taking on the role as "work wife" , confidante and friend to men in the workplace as these cosy chats rarely translate to having my best interests at heart

Absolutely this
Work is work and I never let work and my personal life cross over.

It's all a bit intense OP, and I say that as a PA who is close friends with both my managers (worked for them for many years, see them socially, know personal things about each other).

If I left and wasn't rehired later down the line I'd see it as a business decision - I had been too close, or someone else was bringing fresh skills. What I would 100% expect though would be for them to have a conversation with me before receiving a rejection email.

It sounds like he let you apply on the off-chance there was no-one more suitable.

I'd be letting your friendship drift. It's a bit odd already that you speak weekly. Are these conversations genuinely balanced or is it more you listening to him? I was very close to a previous manager, and when I left we would have conversations fairly regularly, as we fully intended to work together again in future. I quickly realised he wasn't interested in me at all, I was just a sounding board for whatever he wanted to talk about. I'd accepted that as a PA, but as a friend...no.

Very gently, OP, I think you need to step back and look at the bare facts of the situation.

He didn’t approach you to apply for the role. He was noncommittal when you approached him. You assumed that he would apply his prior knowledge of your work to fill the gaps in your interview when often the decision has to come down to performance in the selection process alone.

I completely understand your embarrassment but I think you need to get a bit of distance and re-evaluate your professional relationship.

I was reading through thinking 'how many of this old fashioned type of PA roles still exist'?!
but moved out of commerce to the charity sector a while ago, so could be out of touch.

Whether you are someone your boss or anyone else finds physically attractive or not should be irrelevant. Someone who is reliable, efficient and smart is what the job the OP applied for requires amongst other things.

OP, hope you find a job you enjoy soon.

I’m so sorry this has happened to you - it also happened to me once and I found the feeling of sadness and rejection unbearable. Unfortunately I never did actually get to the bottom of it but an opportunity came up with another Company and I ended up with the best job I ever had. Ive never come into contact with my old boss again but I’ve found in life that some friendships have a sell by date. Cutting ties and moving on was the best thing for me. Good luck in however you decide to deal with this.

I think you are disappointed as you believed you had this in the bag.
I think he is acting professionally and having HR send out the rejection email is better than him doing so personally and making a phone call.
I have only worked in the public sector, so maybe it's different elsewhere but if someone else has scored better than you in the interview then they will get the job. It's all about what happens on the day and they can only make decisions based on information received on the application form and interview. Him knowing your work from previous experience should not come into it, as this would be biased and you should ensure you offer examples to the questions that demonstrate your ability to do the job and not assume that he would remember that time you do xyz.

What is the reason you are friends? Was is because you were hoping to get a job with him again in the future or was it because you are friends? If it's you are friends, then maybe you can say how you feel awkward about it but want to move on from it and keep the friendship.

I would feel hurt. I think the PA/boss relationship isn’t like another work relationship. You do learn a lot more about someone as you know all about what they are doing when and on some occasions do personal tasks for them.

the fact you got the last 2 sounds like you would have been really competent in the role. You honestly just don’t know the reason for your rejection. It might be that the other person would leave if they didn’t get it and so the company might not want to lose them. It could be they have a particular specialist skill. It could be that they have experience at that level that you don’t have. It could be they came hugely recommended as he didn’t want to pass.

I don’t think it unreasonable to ask for feedback though official channels rather than personally ask you ex boss. You would in any other circumstance.

try to not take this personally put it and remember things always work out for the best and this was not the role for you and something better will come along.

I don't think constantly referring to it as a rejection is healthy, it appears to be too personal, including the fact that his current PA didn't apply because you did. This is work and he chose someone else, yes you are disappointed but it's not rejection.

I feel the dynamic is off somewhere, he did not encourage you to go for the role, in fact he was lukewarm about it, and if it really was his decision alone that speaks volumes. Yet you thought the job was yours and were so excited to be working for him again that your reaction to be told over the phone would have been uncontrollable emotions and crying?

It is not uncommon for a manager to call and say they want a person to apply for the position and update them on the current situation. If he is so good a friend who you speak to every week why didn't he do this? Was it really a case of he couldn't take you with him the last time or did he not try?

You need to look at your reasons at why you see this as a rejection rather than disappointment at not getting a job. If he is a friend there should be no reason why you cannot call him and say oh I was gutted I didn't get the job.

We don't know his reasons but it appears there is too much emotion in this situation. Ask for feedback through HR.

I really feel for you OP, that must hurt.

Don’t ask him for feedback! That is terrible advice! It’d be awkward for everyone. Feedback is to help you better prepare for the next interview, and that is not really your issue here.

He should really have given you the news you never got the job himself. I think that is the bit I could not get over. There would not really be the friendship over for me.

Sorry, but as he was not enthusiastic about you applying, I think he already knew he wanted someone else for the job. He should have been honest then rather than let this whole shit storm unfold. And then not even have the decency to tell you the interview outcome himself.

He’s not treated you well. Sorry OP.

Maybe this is a kick you need to look for a new role elsewhere that pushes you more and takes you in a new direction.

I’ve recently interviewed for a role. A - 1 person from within the area and B - 1 outside.

A should have nailed it but I’m not sure if it was complacency but they just didn’t give strong enough examples.
B absolutely smashed it, they were by far the best candidate.

we know A can definitely do the job but they just didn’t score highly enough on the day. B beat them and had the disadvantage of not knowing the role. We weren’t going to give it A just because we have prior knowledge of them, we gave it to the best performing candidate and gave feedback to A on where they can brush up for next time.

Seems like OP isn't going to respond to the questions

Do you know the other candidate op. This is likely not personal. Simoly thay person was a better fit, for Pa in this particular role.

also I mean this gently. But a family member of mine was Pa and had a similar situation, they were and are “ friends”, but it was very obvious she wasn’t as good as she thought at the job and he was at fault for not spelling it out. Although the not taking her with him and rejection should have given her food for thought. She basically felt her friendship made her untouchable but more thay she was in charge, not him. Some of the things she’d say I’d think yikes.

he hasn’t actually given you the job twice now. And he didn’t ask you to apply or encourage you to do so. I’d not let it be awkward, as that smacks of you felt entitled to the job, which is what made me think of my relative.

I'm sure you gave a good interview but don't take this personally. It may have been a formality if someone short term was already in the role.

I think this will be hard to get over because if he didn't want you as PP said he should have dropped heavier hints to you and he also shouldn't have allowed an impersonal HR notification. It's careless and thoughtless. Even if he thinks you are terrible at the job (which he won't but even if) he's the one who has messed up this delicate situation. I personally think if someone wants you to have a job, they find a way. He would have had final say and there were only two of them anyway. Sure he'll be able to provide feedback but I think it would almost make things worse.

I think you'll find it's hard to be as warm with him going forward. I agree it's just business ultimately but he should have handled this better. I guess he could still come to you and air things out.

He can’t do that, he needs to give her an interview and not say the decision is pre made, irrelevant of how much she thinks of their friendship ultimately he has to be a professional and follow process, which is what he did.

^^ 100% this.
Boundary has been crossed between a professional relationship and a cosy, best friends one.
The company would soon find out how close the two of you are and that would definitely cause issues in due course.
Very unprofessional relationship in the workplace and uncomfortable for colleagues.