Rejected by old boss - argh!

[Greengreengrassblueblueskies]

Name changed for this. I’ve spent the evening feeling very sorry for myself!

A few years ago I worked for a very long time for my old boss as his PA. I always did a good job and got great feedback/reviews and when he moved departments we kept in touch (I stayed in my old role as how our company is structured he couldn’t “take me with him”)

We have kept in touch and I’d actually say we are good friends and also colleagues.

He recently got a promotion to a newly created role and internally they advertised for a PA for him. So I applied and interviewed with him (and another person from his team on the panel). I thought I’d be great and a good fit given I know him and I know his new area he’s been promoted to.

And then at 5pm, I got a rejection email from HR. No feedback. Nothing. To make matters worse, we have spoken since the interview (about normal things unrelated to work).

I feel SO sad. I really wanted to work for him again and he always says how much he loved working with me…so why not give me the job?! Ergh.

AIBU for feeling this way?

Maybe his way of working has evolved. Maybe there was another candidate that just had better knowledge of this particular company's product or service than you do. Maybe he prefers an employee with more distance between them, since he knows you pretty well now and it sounds like you're friends. He might feel it's easier to be a boss to someone he doesn't know well. When you mentioned applying, it sounds like he was noncommittal. He couldn't really have told you not to apply.

The only way you will know is to ask for feedback. There might well be a reason for the other person getting it that you don't know and can't guess.

This is a very real possibility. If he really wanted you as his PA, he’d had approached you first, asking you to apply.

The fact he didn’t indicates he didn’t want you in the role. Could be a number of reasons. Maybe he didn’t want you now you’re a friend. Maybe he didn’t think your quality of work was high enough. Maybe not fast enough. Maybe he doesn’t like you as much as he makes out (he can hardly tell you that). Maybe someone applied who he likes more or thinks is better suited to the role. Maybe your existing manager asked him not to take you as they need you.

Whatever the reason is, the bottom line is he doesn’t want you in the role. You need to accept that and move on.

I have read all your responses OP. Whilst it does indeed sting to be rejected at work, your emotional involvement with this feels way over invested, way too personal and almost intense. Perhaps this comes across to others including this man, and doesn't much help your case.

It might be worth exploring why you feel quite so acutely emotionally invested in working for/with him.

It could be as simple as he's been actively working with this person for years now so the close working bond between the 2 of you has faded. I'd still ask for feedback but from HR rather than him.

Kindly OP I am also a PA and I think he may have made the right call from your comments. There is a level of intimacy in how you feel about him and this role that is very off for what the working relationship should be, which should be attentive but professional and detached. I have met overly attached PA's before and it is not a good thing, in fact it can feel a bit awkward for those involved and can leave to overstepping on the PA's part.

I have been moved and reassigned between directors before and it has never been an emotional thing for me. I could feel a bit gutted maybe if I didn't get a job I wanted but it would never have brought me to tears on the call. The friend comment is also not really right- they were/ would have been your manager, that is not the right dynamic.

I don't mean this to upset you further, but just to say perhaps look on this as a good thing for you so you can work on the more professional/ detached working relationship that you should cultivate to further your PA career.

I can totally get how upset you must feel. Personally I wouldn’t ask for feedback in these circumstances, as it’s not going to change the decision and with feeling emotional at the could make you more upset. It doesn’t sound like you have done anything wrong at interview it’s always tricky when you know the person. You will move on from this OP. take care of yourself over the weekend

This thought did occur to me - whether there had been an intimate relationship/emotional entanglement of some kind
I also wondered who makes the weekly calls most of the time…

Most men I know who had PAs as they climbed higher up the corporate ladder wanted younger and prettier and more glamorous PAs then the cosy comfortable ones they had in the past...plays to their ego and image. I'm guessing you are a certain age OP since you said you last worked for him years ago and you worked for him for a very long time.

OP, I have also been in your old boss’s position many times, and been on hiring committees where my friends/colleagues/people I supervised were candidates (all disclosed to HR).

Jobs varied between working directly for/with me, or on my team, or with me as an independent and the job for another team. Each case was difficult, but I was required to - and did - put my personal relationship to one side and judge the person and the fit for the job. I always expected/hoped that the person knew I would be doing this, and whatever private disappointment they might feel, would understand it was professional and keep it professional.

Like the other poster, some rejected candidates impressed me with their professionalism in the face of disappointment, and their redoubling down of efforts. This all helped them next time. Other friends/candidates disappointed me by making it personal. For most of them, that behaviour reaffirmed to me that my decision was correct.

The comments in your posts about “ruining us”, wanting to message him outside work lines for feedback and crying if he called you to say you didn’t have the job etc all make me think the lines between professional and friendship have blurred too much. I would not want to hire someone who might cry if I have to reject their leave or couldn’t respect working time boundaries. When I did work closely with friends, they always knew business decisions would come first.

I appreciate you haven’t done these things, just thinking of them, but that you did think them does show the relationship has evolved to one where you are too comfortable as friends. Whatever his motivation in not choosing you, perhaps you could see it as a positive thing, that had you gotten the job, it may have been the end of your friendship anyway, in a potentially messy and difficult way over an issue where you thought he should understand or ‘factor in’ that you are friends, but he needed a PA, not a friend at that time.

If I were you, I would grieve in private. Don’t ask for feedback from him or HR - as you say, you won’t get the truth from him and it would be awkward. Then, if you can, contact him as normal, head held high and onwards. Don’t mention the job or interview at all. Think of it like seeing an ex-boyfriend after a break up. Be your normal positive, efficient self. Make him see your behaviour as professional and positive after this. It may get you a job from him in future, or it may mean he is a positive reference for a different job for you in future. Or it may come to nothing. But professionally you will look good, and I think that’s important.

As to the friendship - after your initial contact as normal, play it by ear. You may want to cool it off, you may want to continue, embracing the fact you are only friends now. No need to decide that now.

I really think you need to ask him why. Do it over text, so you down break down on the phone. You need closure for that interview.

Please take some time to get some distance (physically, emotionally and mentally) and dignity. Do not message him.

How often does he contact you vs you contacting him? Did he say he loved working with you before or after you said you loved working with him?

You see him as a friend, I am sorry to say he doesn't sound like he sees you any more than a friendly associate.

It hurts, I get that but it's time for you to move on.

Why would OPs friends ask him? OP can ask themselves

I'm sorry you didn't get the position and are feeling so low. Being told you didn't get a role you wanted never feels good. But it doesn't sound like this person did anything wrong, and I don't think you have any reason to think it was a rejection of you or your work. Most likely there was either another candidate who better fit exactly what he needed in this role or he had concerns about your friendship potentially causing issues with the manager-report role.

And I think if he was worried about the friendship causing problems I think he probably had a point. Managing someone means you need to be prepared to critique them, turn down pay rise requests, be impartial when others have complaints or conflict with them, and sometimes even reassign or dismiss them. Based on your reaction to this interview rejection it seems likely that your friendship would make that difficult. This clearly feels very personal to you - you're thinking about what it means for your friendship and whether he doesn't actually like you and you're upset that he didn't personally tell you (I doubt that's standard for unsuccessful interviews in your company and it certainly would have been appropriate for him to discuss the interview when you last spoke).

I've had to turn down mentees, colleagues and friends for positions and had direct reports I truly liked layed off and it's awful for everyone. I've learned that the least bad approach is to allow a few days for them to work through the immediate feelings and collect themselves before I even consider reaching out to have any more personal conversation. Take the weekend to vent to close friends and wallow a bit then when you feel ready you can call him, tell him you're disappointed but appreciate being considered, and then put on a great show of moving on. It would be a shame to lose the friendship and he may still be happy to put in a positive word for you for other internal positions.

Gosh. This is so hard for you

I'll tell you what I think

I think he said you could apply because he didn't know how to say 'don't apply'

But you're just too close, too friendly with him, and know too much and he actually didn't want you to have the job

Also - I think you were so sure that you were going to get the job, that you didn't give your best interview anyway

I can remember being asked TWICE (!) to apply for a role, years ago, and I was so sure I'd get it, I did zero prep. I didn't get the job 🙄

He hasn't rejected you, he has just selected a more suitable candidate. I'm going through a similar situation atm where where someone I have mentored and supported in the past has applied for a position, but the role has a lot of applicants. While I'd be happy to have them, there are better qualified/suitable candidates.

In this instance although I expect to reject this candidate, I'd be happy to provide feedback and work with them in the future. Send something like this:

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for considering me for the role of xxxxx. I'm a little disappointed that I didn't get the role, but keen to understand where I can improve should a similar role come up in the future. Would it therefore be possible for you to provide some feedback about my application and interview?

Best wishes

God Golly - this isn't grade school where you ask your friend to ask a boy if he likes you. That is an awful and completely unprofessional suggestion. If he didn't give her the job because he thinks that she (the OP) has made things too personal, having her friends ask him would totally prove him right.

In most corporate companies these days interviews are scored. So you may get 1-3 points for each question depending on your structure and content. It may actually not even be that person's decision, no matter how much they like you. You can't factor in things that were not said in the interview, or personal favouritism.

Also for a senior manager hiring a friend is not a good look, unless the friend is head and shoulders and then some above any other candidates. Especially if it's a male-female situation.

Personally I would stay away from hiring a friend into my team as far as I possibly could. Managing someone you have a personal relationship with is a minefield.

Looks like the previous poster and I both misunderstood due to a typo in the post we were responding to (your friend versus you're friend, makes a big difference).

I still think that any request for feedback needs to be done using whatever the normal channels/processes would be and not rely on the friendship.

OP I’ve worked as a PA in the past and it can be a very intimate (albeit professional) relationship that you form with someone that over time you begin to think of yourself as an extension of that person rather than a separate entity who is helping them with a business need. The job often requires you to know someone inside out and how many people in our lives do we know inside out? I understand therefore why this rejection must feel doubly crushing.

He’s properly able to be friends with you now that you are no longer working for him and knowing him so intimately. To go back to that intimate professional relationship where you are managing his time and having access to all of his private emails, making decisions on his time etc. would properly feel like the waters are too muddied now that you’ve become friends outside of this.

Don’t say better. Not to him or yourself. Say “more suited to this role”.

Sorry OP, that sounds tough to deal with and I’d feel similarly to you I think.

Keep your powder dry. I agree with the pp who said not to request feedback directly from him and to let him take the next move now. You may not hear any more about it (ime men can be good at trying to gloss over these things and completely ignoring them). Be bright and breezy but not at all proactive in any (non-work related) conversation.

I've worked with people in the past I loved working with. Some of them were 'under' me. However, I've moved on and so have they. A few I remain friends with. I would find working with them again...weird? Particularly if I am now good friends with them. I wouldn't like the dynamic and would likely hire someone else too.
It won't have anything to do with your skills or interview. He probably just doesn't want to go back to the past, as is his right.

You do need to ask him, you will not be able to 'move on' until you do. But, just thinking about it, the fact he hasn't even had the decency to mention it to you, even in passing to apologise that he went with someone else, doesn't say much about him. That it hasn't even occurred to him, is bewildering. You obviously value the friendship far more than he does.

Sadly they aren't allowed to factor this in. I work in the NHS and my colleague was on a temporary contract. A new higher banded role was advertised in the service, my colleague applied but didn't get it (despite being perfect for the role and already in the service) as someone else scored higher in their interview answers. My colleague gave shorter answers as by her own admission she 100% assumed she would get it so felt the interview was just a formality. Our boss felt terrible about it all but said that you literally have the scoring matrix in front of you and can only give scores based on the answer they give, not any knowledge you have as an interviewer about the person.

I suspect in your case OP either someone else gave better answers on the day, or as others have suggested the dynamic in your relationship with him has changed to a point where he would feel uncomfortable being in a position of power again (especially if as you say, you're now more friends).

OP got the email from HR at 5PM yesterday. There hasn't been any "in passing" and she says they normally catch up about once a week.

The hiring manager didn't discuss the decision or how she'd done with OP between the interview and a decision being communicated because that's an entirely unprofessional thing for a hiring manager to do with a candidate and likely a violation of company policy.

And if OP expects the manager to reach out on a Friday night to console her over not getting a job or to apologize for doing his job?) then she's passed the point of being able to see him as a boss and it's not in anyone's interest for her to work directly with him again.