Non binary

[Fullofquestions1]

Watching first dates and someone said they were non binary and asked the bar guy what his pronouns were.
I just don’t understand surely you are male or female whether that be what you were born or not. I just can’t get my head round not feeling youre either. Can anyone please put it in simple terms for me.

Non-binary is not a medical term. they are either a male or female - counselling will help deal with their limitations

once you use the random string of meaningless letters [c.i.s.] you abandon all logic and sense.

I'll start an ideology, tell people I'm now made of invisible cells just because I think it. Everyone must completely not see me. Those who do say they see me will be corrected by those who say they cannot, even though we all know it's impossible for me to change my cells to this extent.
That's what the T and followers are in effect asking us to believe. It's why words like trans and cis make no sense. I could pick two words, blor and blar and apply them to my situation and they'd make as much sense.

People have decided not to conform to rigid gender stereotypes for years! I don't see the need to have to call yourself 'non-binary' or use 'they/them' to do this...

I have short hair, have never married and I have no interest in the dress/heels/heavy make-up look and I have dated men and women in my younger years.

I am still very much a woman, just one who does no longer give a damn about what patriarchal societies say about how I should look like or how I should behave.

I think needing to put labels on everything and policing everyone to use them is not exactly what freedom looks like...

You sound like the ideal candidate for answering the question. "I just can’t get my head round not feeling youre either. Can anyone please put it in simple terms for me."

Can you explain what makes you fit in the "cis" box with some men but not some women?

But language changes.
Gay men who dressed as women used to be called Mollies.
Dandies were effeminate men aside from their sexuality.
Radcliffe Hall called herself an invert due to gender representation and sexuality.

We can't freeze language into a form that we are acceptable with. Language change is the norm. We can resist but it'll happen anyway. Cis is in the dictionary. It's a word.

Cis is a word that describes a concept I don't believe in, so I have no need to use it, just as I generally have no use for the word 'transubstantiation' unless I want to say 'I don't believe in transubstantiation'.

I reject the concept 'cis' because it is nonsense. I will never describe myself as a cis woman.

It’s made up nonsense which has spread by social contagion.

Fair enough. There are loads of words I wouldn't use to describe myself. Totally get that.

The word might be in the dictionary but like many other words that appear in the dictionary, it is not in common use. I never hear it in my day to day life- most people over the age of about 35 would have no idea what it means. A specific group of people would like it if we all used the word but I’m not sure it’s ever going to really catch on. If we don’t actually need a particular word, it doesn’t get used. And most people don’t have any need to use ‘cis’ because we all know what ‘man’ and ‘woman’ mean.

Yes language changes, but changes need be beneficial to society to last long term.

Cis is a term that makes no sense to the vast majority. Why would women end up as a sub category in the category of women?

It's only by inviting men into a definition of women that you need the term cis. Kick men out of the category of women and everything is much more straightforward and clear for all.

Good post, thanks. That’s helpful for me.

In answer to your question about compelled speech: we are all used to remembering individual names for people, and it’s very little effort changing the name label we attach to a person. It takes a bit of effort for sure, but it’s something we’re used to doing. Changing a pronoun is much harder because of the dissonance between what we see and what we’re allowed to say. We have to give a disproportionate amount of attention to that person so it’s not surprising that it comes across to us as attention-seeking behaviour.

Curiously I’ve known two people recently who have changed their pronouns - one from he to she, and one from she to they. I found the new ‘she’ much easier than the ‘they’. I think that’s because I’m used to using ‘she’, and although the person is clearly male I play along in their fantasy and pretend they’re female. The ‘they’ just feels weird. The person is female, they look female, women don’t all have long hair and wear make up etc etc. I do try but it feels like a bigger imposition.

I have never even heard of those words, let alone have ever heard gay men being called it.

Basic biological language NEVER changes, nor should we throw up our hands and accept it. Not ever. And 'c1s' is a slur. The 'n' word also 'exists', that doesn't mean it should be used.

More importantly - pronouns don’t belong to individuals to change the meaning of when they feel like it. What you’ve said still plays along with the idea that “preferred pronouns” is a thing. It’s isn’t.

Go on whats the dictionary definition of 'cis'

TunipTheVegimal24

But I've seen so much metaphorical foaming at the mouth on here, where the mere suggestion of understanding something in concept, is taken as a personal insult (from both points of view).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y8nViKYmEhU

Names are for individuals. Pronouns are for classes. As are the words woman and man. You can’t just redefine them to include some stuff you want to include- it renders them meaningless.

I’m less bothered about non binary- it’s just a special name for normal. Most of us don’t need it, we just present however we want.

That would be a first, biological father and mother!

I was a bit of a tomboy as a kid, always falling out of trees and off bikes. As an adult I rode motorbikes for years, did kick boxing and other rough sports.
Am I non binary now? There seems to be a lot of confusion in thr trans, non binary community as to what a woman is.
It seems to me they think a woman is an exaggerated Dolly Parton.

Hopefully it’s not actually possible as I don’t think it would be advisable. But out of interest I wonder if the child would be a clone of the parent. (I don’t understand genes very well so forgive me if this is a stupid thing to say).

Many people in the past would have said that about using titles Miss and Mrs. I railed against that because I really dislike having a title which is all about whether I’m married or not. We now expect people to hold on to the extra piece of information about our titles beyond saying ‘the class of women who are married’ or ‘unmarried’.

I think that non-binary is a perfectly reasonable way to identify, if it explains the world to you in the way that makes sense. We don't all have the same perceptions of the world, after all.

I do think it's a bit easier all round if people stuck to pronouns for their genetic sex, bar those with intersex conditions, who can do as they please, they've got enough on their plate to live with.

No it’s not. Non-binary does not exist in law (or in the minds of the sane).

You haven’t got the wrong idea OP, and neither is it complex. It may seem complex because it’s hard to explain. The reason it’s hard to explain is because it’s nonsense.

It is also unnecessary and insulting.

Anyone can be as feminine or as masculine as they like or as they feel. It’s an insult to everyone else who doesn’t adhere to sex stereotypes to make yourself out to be something special.

https://www.recoveringanarchist.ca/p/why-i-stopped-using-they-them-pronouns

A good article

‘I am writing this for people like my younger self, for anyone on a precipice, who doesn’t quite fit in where they are supposed to, and may not yet realize that this anguish is the cost of being human. It is, to some degree, felt by everyone. So before reaching for a fix, consider the possibility that nothing in you is broken’.