To be so worried after ds's first parents' evening and want to move schools?

[Nant90]

I need to get some perspective and advice following ds's first parents' evening last week. I'm sorry it's long and thank you to anyone who does get to the end.

He is in reception and, if relevant, his birthday is coming up so around middle in terms of age. He didn't go to preschool as I was on maternity leave and then dh is sahd. He had been in nursery one day a week to give dh and then me a break and loved it. Then when he went up to the preschool room he just didn't seem happy. He and didn't ever seem to be playing with anyone when we picked him up so we took him out. Now I wonder if that was a huge mistake. He was not in any educational setting for the 6 months leading up to starting school.

This may make me sound like an arse, but I do believe ds is very bright. He is so articulate and never stops talking at home. Friends (with dc of similar ages) and relatives are always commenting on his vocabulary and ability to hold a conversation. Being read to is his favourite thing and he is forever asking questions I don't know the answer to, so we look them up. I'm not saying he's advanced - I wouldn't really know, but neither do I think he is behind. He can count up to 100 ish and recognises numbers in puzzles etc. My friend teaches his age group and was impressed at him playing I Spy last year as he was blending sounds. He also enjoys documentaries like Walking with Dinosaurs and Planet Earth and talks about what he's seen afterwards. Loves museums and concentrates well and discusses the content. Plays well with friends' children - mainly three children we've known all his life, but does hook up with other kids in playgrounds etc and seems to play well with them too, give or take the odd issue, but nothing that marks him out from other kids I know.

I considered teaching him to read before starting school but he showed no interest whatsoever. He got frustrated and kept saying, 'Just read me the book,' so I thought it was best not to push it and leave it to the experts. As I said, he loves books and adores being read to. He also has no interest in writing but, again, I didn't see the point in pushing it. He's now making slow but steady progress with Biff and Chip after a very shaky start - he's found the whole process frustrating but I did think he was getting there more recently and it does seem to be clicking.

Now we've had the first real parents' evening and I feel so deflated. The focus was on what he can't do and I was shown other children's' art work with their names neatly written on to really make the point clear. I was asked whether we have pencils and paper at home, ffs. They are all ahead of him, apparently. I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.' I wanted to cry. She then asked whether we talk to him or have the TV up loud all the time - I have done nothing but talk to him ever since he was born and he never stops talking! He only started watching TV when his brother was born and it's limited. Dh and I never watch TV until dc are in bed. She just seemed to be judging us but nothing she said rang true anyway!

It seems he is not thriving there at all and is not showing anything he can do and definitely not learning anything new. To make it worse, the school is in a deprived area and outcomes are below average, yet he is worse than all the other children?! I feel this is worrying for his future and just want to move him.

Dh, who normally thinks I worry over nothing, wants to ask for a meeting with the other teacher when they go back next week (it's a 3-2 job share and we saw the one who does 2 days) and go from there. I just want to move him.

Any thoughts would be great - I just feel we're letting him down in leaving him there.

Knee-jerk pulling him out of educational settings is how you’ve got in this situation in the first place.

Children learn a lot by modelling from their peers and it sounds like he’s missed out on all of this. Can you enrol him in some clubs and activities where it’ll broaden his scope a bit?

Maybe look at nursery places for the baby so that 1. They develop their social skills and 2. DS can have some 1:1 time with you both and you can help him with reading, drawing etc?

Going to playgroups and activities with you is way different from going to pre school and school, he had you before and now doesn’t.

my friend is a P1(Scotland) teacher and says she can tell which children have gone to preschool nursery and those who haven’t. One day a week at nursery isn’t great, it doesn’t help children settle they need more.

definitely have a meeting with the other teacher but to me it sounds more like your son is struggling socially which is affecting his learning.

Yes but it's not necessarily anything they're doing at the school, it's just that his mum isn't there. So taking him and putting him in a new setting also without mum may not be the magic fix op hopes.

I always worry about this rush for children to be 'bright and academic' at such a young age. At reception age, I think learning social skills, such as cooperation and sharing - through play, should be the main focus - and it sounds like it's perhaps the social and communication elements your ds struggles with the most. This in turn may lead to his unhappiness at school and comparatively slow learning progress. Children only learn when they're happy.

Both of mine are experiential learners - they have to visually see and do something in order to properly engage with an activity. Theory, and reading, is something they have never really enjoyed - but noticeably at that age. All children are different, but many are like this at age 4/5 - hence the focus on play related learning in the early years.

I would be asking for another meeting and stating the differences you see/ hear between home and school behaviours and knowledge and asking them how they're helping him to settle and develop some of the social skills he needs to be happy.

And at home, as others have said, find some fine motor skills activities he enjoys. This was more of a struggle for my ds at this age because he was very active and had a preference for gross motor skills activities. He hated bead threading, colouring or sticker book activities requiring him to sit and focus for prolonged periods. So we had to be quite clever about finding themes he really liked (dinosaurs, for example) and doing some related activities.

Also, I am sure all children without significant SEN learn to read and write eventually. But spending lots of time with a parent in early childhood is precious and not something he would have been able to get later on. Doesn’t sound like any sort of mistake in your decision making really.

But he’s now school age and needs to be able to manage in structured settings without his mum. OP still won’t be there during the day if she moves him to another school.

If his issue is being in settings where he doesn’t have his mum for safety, that’s an issue with the child, and it’s not going to be solved by moving him to another setting where he still doesn’t have his mum.

Both my DC are very bright but socially quite reserved. I never felt the teachers "got" my DC until they were older. My eldest wasn't an exceptional reader at that age, but I kept reading to him and made sure we read stuff that interested him, and challenged him with concepts.He is now a great reader and has a fantastic vocabulary and great analytical skills. Curiosity is really important, never underestimate it.

100% agree. Was trying to think of how to word a similar comment but you've said it perfectly!

The school could look at ways to make him feel safer and more settled at school rather than just terming him "the silent one".

If the parents evening is indicative of the way the teacher handles the class, id say there's a lot more she should be doing to support this child.

I'm going to push back on the idea that not going to pre school has put this child behind in education. He sounds like a perfectly bright little boy, he doesn't need to be able to read and write at age 4. And he will get used to being in large groups soon enough. I say that as someone who worked in Early years, and some pre schools are frankly rubbish I'm afraid.

You've done what lots of loving parents do and fostered his interests.

Now is the time to push the things he isn't bothered by like writing. He will push back and you will have to have those battles.

But moving him schools isn't going to make him more extroverted or help him to write.

As long as the school are being professional, I.think it's better to get constructive comments about improving over having hot air blown up your arse about how great he is.

Or it's an issue with the setting not appropriately meeting his needs.

We had to move my son in the middle of year 1 due to a house move and although both schools are rated as good, his new one is miles better for him. The old school were more relaxed and "creative" is the best way I can put it - his handwriting was atrocious and I honestly couldn't read a word of what he said. They said he lacked creativity and his fine motor skills weren't good enough. The new school seem to be a bit more rigid and academic but that works well for him - his handwriting is incredible now (still looks like a 7 year olds handwriting but I can actually read it 😂). In his latest parents evening his teacher explained that they teach handwriting differently at the new school so he had to unlearn what the old school had taught him, then re-learn it their way but it's honestly done him so much good. I didn't even know there were different ways of teaching handwriting! And as for his creativity - he comes home now with "books" (folded bits of paper) he's written about military vehicles, complete with drawings and details of what they do!

I understand why others are saying not to pull him out at the first sign of things not going as you'd hoped but equally in my experience, it's the best thing I did for my child, even if it was done out of necessity due to a house move. I hadn't considered that he might have flourished in another school, I assumed they all taught things the exact same way but I'm so happy with the new school and how he's coming along in it. I don't think it would necessarily hurt for you to do some research into other schools to see if one would be more suitable for your child.

I almost thought you were referring to the school my kids went to 15 years ago because that’s how our first parent teacher meeting went in reception and the next day I discovered that’s how all the other meetings with parents went too. It was the last time I attended a meeting with a teacher without dh. We moved the kids after two years, to a much more positive caring school - I wish I’d done it sooner. I still hang out with parents from that school - things did not improve - it was awful - many of them didn’t see it at the time. It was stuff their kids shared with them later.

I'm a foundation stage teacher and recognising numbers, counting forwards, knowing sounds, asking relative questions all seems developmentally on target. He might not be showing it in class but I don't think you've anything to worry about. He missed preschool so it might take him a bit longer to catch up with the other children in regards to writing his name etc but that doesn't mean the ability isn't there. The teacher is outlining areas for you to work on but that isn't a bad thing (sounds like her delivery was). Some children take a little longer for things to click. My son is in reception and he is no where near where his sister was at the age. Do a little bit of work with him at home if you can but don't worry about it. He is only little. Some children don't begin formal learning until 6/7 in some European countries and there education system is much better than ours.

Kids are often very different animals in school. At home, ds was loud and extrovert; never stopped chattering. In school, he always been the quiet one. I, of course, thought he was going to be a little gifted child and to be fair, his reading was always above.

But everyone else caught up. His handwriting is still as poor as it was when he was in primary and he's running at around a grade 6 in half his subjects in year 10.

Dd was a little madam at home but perfect in school. To the extent that their high school teachers do that fine take thing on parents eve when they realise they're related!

I was going to say this. And his hearing.

He may be struggling in a noisy environment.

My cousin managed to fool everyone for nearly 18 months at school that she could see the page fine. She was just brilliant at memorising and getting others to do it for her without people realising.

The teacher seemed disinterested, perhaps she was tired, I would definitely speak to the other teacher.

I don't think you can ever actually tell if it was a mistake taking him out of pre school.

It's possible that having that extra time at home has helped him in ways you can't see.

It's possible he could be doing "worse" right now if he's stayed in pre school.

You did what you thought was best and you need to trust yourself.

My ds was young for his age and struggled in nursery, he was shy and quiet and cried to come home.
We decided to home school him until he was more ready for school.
So at his request he entered formal education in Year 1.
He was not behind and did extremely well both socially and academically.

He's now a very social and popular, articulate adult at university, he is very thoughtful, insightful and in no way harmed by missing out a few years of school!

So you admittedly find it difficult to get your ds to do activities he is isnt interested in because of his set interests? It might be that he just sort of retreats into himself at school because he is not used to exploring things outside of his set interests and this is something you can work on. Do you have any examples? For example for fine motor, threading pasta on a string is good. I let my toddler paint the pasta first because she loves paints. She then feels like she has done a painting activity but we have actually been developing skills the whole time. Sometimes we practice pencil control by ‘playing school’ - she asks to play this game and we pretend for 10 mins we are ‘at big school’ . Obviously in a class of 30 students this can’t be achieved to match everyone’s individual needs. What is he interested in and can you adapt it to do some work at home ?

With kindness, I think you are overreacting. However, it's not surprising as this teacher's feedback could have been provided with far more tact and more constructively.

You have a child who appears to be an only child and hasn't been to nursery. Of course, he will be not used to socialising etc. He'll get there in his own time. Maybe some play dates etc will get him used to interacting with others.

It's very early days. I've doubt that he's bright, he just hasn't had enough time to get used to adapting to a school environment.

He is plenty of time to catch up. Also, if ge does have additional learning needs changing schools means it's likely to take longer for them to be picked up again.

You have done nothing wrong here. Lots of children don't go to nursery and they usually catch up after a year or so. It's not a mistake. Your child had done nothing wrong either and so what if he's quiet. That might just be who he is.

All children find their way and place eventually. He will turn our just find and a lot of that will be down to the fact he appears to have good parents, who are interested in hus development. Stop being so hard on yourself please.

If it is a two entry year group the classes normally mix during some parts of the day (not just play time). It might be that the teacher has not seen him playing with children he has also mentioned in those times as reception can be pretty chaotic! A TA might have noticed different things if working with him in a group.

As others have said, it is very different going to a group with his mum and baby where it sounds like he was idolised. Your comments all say how he was the 'centre of attention' and your first post says how friends have remarked on his 'vocabulary' and are 'impressed'. You have to remember your friends are going to have a different opinion to a school as the school has no personal connection to you. It is easy for your child to be centre of attention with his own family and with people he knows. It is harder in a class of 30 and 'impress' when there are other personalities of children who are all 'impressive' in some way.

Did you actually want your child to go to this school? Something that stands out to me is that you keep mentioning it is in a deprived area. If you already have a negative view of the school I wonder if that is also affecting the way you think about it.

I agree with this.

My thoughts too.

I disagree with those saying to keep him there. You saod yourself, he is not thriving. We had issues at DS school l; not similar as he had lots of friends but similar in that we were concerned by the attitude of the teachers. We eventually moved him and it was like night and day, great teachers and the kids are just as nice. So I suggest moving him!

@Nant90 it sounds like you see quite a different side to your DS than his teachers do, and both you and they can only go on what you're seeing up until you start communicating with each other about what's going on. Rather than pulling him out quickly, I'd go to another meeting - ask to see examples of what he's doing at school and bring in evidence of what he does at home. Do you have photos of his artwork, of him playing with friends, videos of him chatting away? Bring a diary of what you do with him and ask for advice. The questions about TV, access to resources, etc aren't punitive; they're things teachers may often encounter which can mean a child isn't starting school-based learning from the same point as other children. They asked, you've answered and presumably have evidence that your answers are accurate. So now you need to ask what else they recommend trying, to support your DS at school.

Pre-school is really important for preparing for starting primary school. It's a stepping stone between nursery and formal learning, and helps prime children for that environment. Your DS didn't do that, so it's not wholly surprising that there may be some aspects he finds difficult socially and in terms of the model of learning. Those in turn will impact upon his academic progress - it's hard to learn when you're stressed or trying to learn other things at the same time. Ask the school if they've got any advice on helping him with that.