To be so worried after ds's first parents' evening and want to move schools?

[Nant90]

I need to get some perspective and advice following ds's first parents' evening last week. I'm sorry it's long and thank you to anyone who does get to the end.

He is in reception and, if relevant, his birthday is coming up so around middle in terms of age. He didn't go to preschool as I was on maternity leave and then dh is sahd. He had been in nursery one day a week to give dh and then me a break and loved it. Then when he went up to the preschool room he just didn't seem happy. He and didn't ever seem to be playing with anyone when we picked him up so we took him out. Now I wonder if that was a huge mistake. He was not in any educational setting for the 6 months leading up to starting school.

This may make me sound like an arse, but I do believe ds is very bright. He is so articulate and never stops talking at home. Friends (with dc of similar ages) and relatives are always commenting on his vocabulary and ability to hold a conversation. Being read to is his favourite thing and he is forever asking questions I don't know the answer to, so we look them up. I'm not saying he's advanced - I wouldn't really know, but neither do I think he is behind. He can count up to 100 ish and recognises numbers in puzzles etc. My friend teaches his age group and was impressed at him playing I Spy last year as he was blending sounds. He also enjoys documentaries like Walking with Dinosaurs and Planet Earth and talks about what he's seen afterwards. Loves museums and concentrates well and discusses the content. Plays well with friends' children - mainly three children we've known all his life, but does hook up with other kids in playgrounds etc and seems to play well with them too, give or take the odd issue, but nothing that marks him out from other kids I know.

I considered teaching him to read before starting school but he showed no interest whatsoever. He got frustrated and kept saying, 'Just read me the book,' so I thought it was best not to push it and leave it to the experts. As I said, he loves books and adores being read to. He also has no interest in writing but, again, I didn't see the point in pushing it. He's now making slow but steady progress with Biff and Chip after a very shaky start - he's found the whole process frustrating but I did think he was getting there more recently and it does seem to be clicking.

Now we've had the first real parents' evening and I feel so deflated. The focus was on what he can't do and I was shown other children's' art work with their names neatly written on to really make the point clear. I was asked whether we have pencils and paper at home, ffs. They are all ahead of him, apparently. I asked how he is doing socially and the teacher asked ds who he plays with, which was pointless as I ask him that myself all the time - I wanted her opinion. When he gave her a name she said, 'Ah, yes, the other silent one.' I wanted to cry. She then asked whether we talk to him or have the TV up loud all the time - I have done nothing but talk to him ever since he was born and he never stops talking! He only started watching TV when his brother was born and it's limited. Dh and I never watch TV until dc are in bed. She just seemed to be judging us but nothing she said rang true anyway!

It seems he is not thriving there at all and is not showing anything he can do and definitely not learning anything new. To make it worse, the school is in a deprived area and outcomes are below average, yet he is worse than all the other children?! I feel this is worrying for his future and just want to move him.

Dh, who normally thinks I worry over nothing, wants to ask for a meeting with the other teacher when they go back next week (it's a 3-2 job share and we saw the one who does 2 days) and go from there. I just want to move him.

Any thoughts would be great - I just feel we're letting him down in leaving him there.

There is nothing more painful than hearing that your children is unhappy or struggling . I feel your pain.

I had a first meeting like this with a blunt teacher when my son was in year 2 at a new school post Covid.
We made an appointment for a longer meeting , took a deep breath and together made a plan for how to help my son develop his social and literacy skills. She showed us specific examples and comparison to his peers which was helpful . She had some valid points and high aims for the children she taught.
Three years on, he is doing really well in every respect but it’s taken trust , teamwork with the school and hard work.

Hi - my DD never really played with anyone at primary school despite having been in nursery settings since she was four months old. Don’t blame yourself. Maybe he doesn’t like the other children or maybe the other children know each other from before. There could be many reasons. Also, what’s wrong with being the quiet one? Do we all have to be stage school and all jazz hands these days?

My DD’s reading was super advanced. Yet this was never mentioned, valued or praised. Instead the year 1 teacher said she “didn’t get it” talking about her maths. DD’s now on course to get a 9 in GCSE maths. Same teacher expressed concerns that DD didn’t recognise Daniel Radcliffe as Harry Potter on a photo. DD hadn’t watched the HP movies then and still hasn’t… when I mentioned what she was reading ant home (Little House on the Prairie) teacher had never heard of it. I could go on. All this to say there are many great teachers and many appalling ones.

Maybe your teacher is good - idk. But it’s great you can get a second opinion. I’d go equipped with a list of questions. Ask if a SEN assessment is needed (our shite teacher went pale when I asked her this question - she was clearly having a go at us and our daughter with no data or proof to back it up.)

Keep reading to him and not just what school sends. Make sure the guided reading books school sends are fully decodable. Ours weren’t. I bought my own - Songbird by Julia Donaldson, which made a huge difference. Buy your own phonics flashcards and continue with those through year 1 and 2 with the more advanced ones. And if you can afford it, get a tutor in - one hour a week for another opinion, another approach, a sanity check.

Please don’t worry. You sound like a great mum.

The teacher sounds quite insensitive. I don’t think moving him is wise. Can you focus on helping him to learn to read/ write at home? You are maybe already doing that, but a little more time. Can you organise some meet ups with other children to help him socially. If he is otherwise bright, but struggling to read, is there another issue at play? I’m no expert but worth considering. Try not to panic. Easier said than done, but it is important.

I didn’t send any of my children to pre school and they were absolutely fine. People need to stop having a go at op for not sending him to pre- school as you can’t change the past and it isn’t always essential anyway.

Just to clarify, we do get him to read to us pretty much every day. At first that was quite a tortuous process so the sessions were short but we did it. It is getting easier now and he can do a bit more at a time. Obviously, the main reading we do is still to him, because he still enjoys that so much. Reading was barely mentioned and, again, in terms of what he can't do. If the others had a head start on him he has definitely started to catch up but this was ignored. I mean, I don't need to be lied to if there is a serious issue but un unrelentingly negative meeting was extremely worrying and disheartening. I don't believe he in the only child in that class not to be reading?

I don't really accept that he has serious social issues as some are saying. He does mix well with children in playgrounds and is often a lot less boisterous than they are, and more willing to share/discuss different games. He also started a drama group last month and has only done a couple of sessions but is enjoying it. I think the large class may be an issue for him and maybe a smaller setting would be better, but also maybe he will get used to this one.

He could be dyslexic. Dyslexic children are often very bright but refuse to engage on reading and writing, as it just doesn't make sense to them.

But with support it can be overcome, although spelling can continue to be a challenge for a long time. The most important thing is to not let it destroy their self esteem.

@Nant90 you talk about low outcomes but are failing to understand that the school, as do all schools in England, are following the EYFS curriculum. It doesn’t matter that they are trying their best in a deprived area.

They have targets and milestones that they will be striving very hard to help the children reach.
This isn’t about being bright or not, it’s about meeting the milestones for EYFS. He is has no experience of this with a preschool then of course he is going to be ‘behind’.
Whilst I understand your reasoning for keeping him at home- the best thing for him would have been to spend sometime in a preschool setting.
it’s a moot point though. You are where you are. Ask how you can support the school at home with him and find out areas he is struggling with and work on those.

One suggestion could be to invite a popular child for a playdate. It may help him integrate into a group which was established before reception. Also, may be worth getting his heating checked given the loud TV comment from teacher.

If you are happy with him being chatty and eloquent at home then you don't need to worry that he isn't demonstrating this in school yet. He is still adjusting to being in a group setting and will find his confidence eventually. Also he will get there with the reading and writing. I am sure he is bright but children learn and develop at their own pace. Also he might not like the reading / writing side of things. Just keep supporting him. I had one dc who was very quick to pick up reading and writing and one who was behind age related expectations right up until the final report in y6. They have different strengths. The teacher doesn't sound especially nice with her comment about him playing with "the other silent one" but remember that lots can change in a short time and also he will have a different teacher next year. One year my ds had a teacher who seemed not to know him at all at parents evening...I'm a teacher and I could tell the comments and responses to my questions were so vague and generic. She was part time so I guess she was having a harder time getting to know them all. Ds seemed oblivious to it and his education didn't suffer.

AHH bless you op, I totally get why you wanted that time with him and tbh loads of kids don't/didn't do nursery or pre school, it's just that these days it probably is more common that they do, at least part time.

My son is 5 and in reception. He went to pre school 2.5 days a week from 3 and mostly loved it - this was after we moved him from his original nursery after a year and a half as it wasn't working for him at all. However he started school unable to write his name or do phonics, but able to explain the process of decomposition and how tides work 🤣 He has come on SO MUCH in school, he can read the little books they bring home and his writing, whilst still clumsy, is miles better than when he started and he actually has enthusiasm for drawing and writing now so we do loads at home too. My son also struggles socially and the school are helping us support him with this.

I'd have the meeting, take some questions written down so you don't forget anything. They should be telling you the positives but also need to let you know the "negatives" and yes they do need to ask about things at home because, as a pp said some kids won't have pens and paper at home and some parents don't realise they need to talk to their kids, unfortunately. Work with the school, build the relationship - it should be a team effort, with the goal being helping your son thrive. School will be a big adjustment - without wanting to be harsh, a toddler group is a whole different ball game to a classroom 6 hours a day, 5 days a week and lots of kids will take time to settle in.

Again another negative comment about the school....
Did you and your DH agree on school choices or did he favour this one?
Did you actually want to home school?

I get the feeling you aren't on board with this school.

Have you never been to a school before? There’s other children’s work literally all over the walls. They aren’t writing classified documents, it’s colouring in of Noah’s Ark.

You can't move him after only 5 months because you don't like the feedback from one parents evening. It may not even be the school, maybe he has Dyslexia (my three children do) so seems a bit early to make the decision to be honest.

I think you made a mistake taking him out of preschool, other children will have had the advantage there of starting to write numbers, letters, pencil control, which you say he didn't at home. That's likely why he is behind.

Give him time and see how he goes, I'm sure hel catch up if he is bright like you say, but if you have concerns he isn't and is still struggling with writing/reading after this year compared to his peers consider what you want to do and maybe ask for a dyslexia test.

Just for some context, my DS in reception was similar to yours at reading - not v interested and made progress, but slowly. His drawing was a disaster. In Year 6, he did an entrance exam to secondary, and we did a few weeks of practice to get him used to it. At the start, he could barely write 5 lines of text in the time they were meant to write a full story. This was at a fantastic primary school where he thrived in other aspects of education - I'm not criticising the school in any way. He just wasn't a natural writer. Secondary, the writing demands cranked up and he built the stamina for writing. He managed to get high grades in GCSEs in history, English, etc, where you had to write a lot. He's now doing a difficult science degree at a good uni, and is quite likely to go on to do a PhD.

What this is trying to show is that kids learn at their own pace. The things Reception teachers are trying to teach are important skills, but boys often learn them more slowly than girls, and it's not a race. If he's not excelling at them, it's not necessarily a sign that he's not bright.

By far the most important thing is whether or not he's happy at school, so focus on that. Meet up with other kids outside school if possible. Foster some friendships. Teachers' observations are an important snapshot of how he's doing now, and should be listened to. But they don't limit his potential in any way as long as he continues to enjoy learning.

Indeed and your example also highlights my point - don't read too much into how they're doing within the first few months at reception. Things change!

As you will have seen from a lot of other posts here, many children struggle in school initially and go on to do well.

My mom kept me at home as long as she could - I struggled throughout primary school and was kept back a year. Eventually I went on to thrive - I actually read English at Oxford despite being deemed a "slow reader" for all those early years.

My own daughter is dyslexic and similarly struggled (despite having gone to nursery/pre-school). She refused to learn to read until she was ready. Turns out she has moderate dyslexia. But once everything clicked she did extremely well, and is now at the top of her class in the selective private school she has a scholarship for.....

The main thing is not to panic, and try to let him develop at his own rate.

Having said that, the teacher was unprofessional. "The other silent one" os a disgusting comment to make about a child. And showing you the other kids' work is really not very helpful.....

Your DH is right - see the other teacher and go from there. But try not to feel like it's all the end of the world ......

As a mum of a similar aged child and a teacher (albeit of secondary aged children), I am in full agreement with this post.

Parental input in the early years is the single most impactful thing for a child and it sounds to me like you’ve done a brilliant job of providing a stimulating environment for your son. Pre-school is really not a pre-requisite at all. I think posters just love to judge others’ choices.

The teacher was quite unprofessional imo for the reasons the poster above lists. A meeting with the second teacher is definitely the right idea.

From that meeting, I would want to know whether your son is happy in school. It’s ok for him to be ‘behind’ with his writing (he’s 5!! Most countries wouldn’t even have started teaching him yet!). It’s also ok for him to just have one close friend at this stage. All of this is fine as long as he’s happy.

I would also want to know the 2nd teacher’s opinion on why he might have found his two experiences of a school setting more challenging. Does his school have a rigid approach to learning? My daughter’s school is 90% play based, with just a short session of formal phonics each morning - to give you an idea that the range of ‘normal’ is wide. Is there a school near you that’s more flexible? But even if there is, is it worth moving him at this stage? By Y1, all will be doing formal sit down learning.

What’s not ok is the teacher’s negativity towards him however I wouldn’t be moving him to a different school. Across his school career, you’re inevitably going to come across teachers that your child doesn’t gel with and that have approaches you disagree with and you can’t move him every time that happens. If you realise you disagree with the whole-school ethos or approach to teaching etc that’s another matter but if it’s just one teacher you’ll have to focus on building your son’s resilience and maintaining his love of learning until he moves onto his new teacher next year.

He’s obviously not used to a classroom setting, OP. Taking him to toddler groups etc is a totally different setting. Your mistake was taking him out of preschool, but you can’t undo that now.

Sounds like you need to practice fine motor with him. Can he write his name? Children are taught to write their name in preschool, and the alphabet, and they start phonics. If he hasn’t done these, he will be a bit behind. I expect that’s what the teacher meant by showing you the other children’s names.

BTW, you come across as quite snobby with your comments about the school intake being low attaining/poor area. I would adjust your way of thinking about it. This is the school your child is attending, meaning you live nearby, you are the intake. Teachers and other parents will be able to sense the superiority a mile off.

A lot of schools with difficult catchments/intakes are absolutely outstanding. You need to get past blaming the setting and focus on your child.

I have taught reception and lower primary for over 20 years. I would not have said and done the things you say the class teacher did. However I think you need to try and move past some of the negativity and focus on how you can support your son. Perhaps ask for a meeting with your husband too to talk about how you can further support your child- why not try and ensure this is on a day the other teacher works- then you get to chat with her and present it as problem solving.

Unfortunately teachers often don’t see what we see and the busy school environment doesn’t bring out the best in every child. It sounds like you are great parents and support your son wonderfully following his interests etc In a main stream state school there is a lot of box ticking. You can decide really is it important to you your son ticks those boxes. For example can read and write simple sentences by the end of Reception, or do you want him to continue to go at his pace and understand school may be negative about this. It’s tricky as obviously one size does not fit all and school has to really try and make children fit into boxes.
I think you will find similar attitudes at all state schools. Although maybe a smaller school might be better. Did you look at your options when choosing originally? Moving won’t necessarily benefit your son at this point but longer term if you’re not happy with the school it could help you to find one more compatible with your values etc

@Flightsoffancy what’s on the walls in your classroom….? And do you take it all down and hide it for parents’ evenings…..?

Err - I beg to disagree. This child clearly has an advanced vocabulary and can converse well. That is a far better predictor of future outcomes than neat writing and artwork.

OP, both of mine were poor writers - one in particular who is left handed and who was also a poor speller - but both of them outperformed the vast majority of their classmates in GCSEs. I would say that almost of my outstanding students over 30 years in HE have scrawly writing.

However - what needs to be worked on is his reading. Both of mine were good readers as well as speakers. So request another meeting and focus on reading- not neat handwriting.

I honestly don't think you need to panic, OP, though I can understand why the teacher's somewhat insensitive attitude was upsetting. It sounds like you have a really bright little boy there. The UK focus on formal academic skills from a very young age is out of step with the approach taken by most other countries, and I often think it sets children up to fail. The idea that not reading fluently at the age of 4 is developmentally concerning is, frankly, bonkers. Where I am, children start school around 5, the first year is all about building strong foundational skills, and it's in the second year (so around age 6) that most children start to properly read - and the vast majority then take off at a run.

Yes, perhaps if he'd gone to preschool he'd be a little more comfortable in a large group setting now - but again, whether this is actually developmentally appropriate or best for him is not at all certain. I think your DH is correct here - take some time to process all of this, meet with the other teacher and try to get a better feel for what the specific concerns are.

OP, I took my ds out of his preschool setting 6 months before starting school, as he was unhappy. Don’t beat yourself up over it: you’ll never know what would have been.

I think you might be able to help your ds by providing a bit more educational support at home. Books through reading chest, online reading games like reading eggs, being a bit deliberate in getting your child an educational boost so that he can catch up with the others. On the social skills, can you find a children’s music group or drama group, if he’s not sporty, as that might help him gain confidence. Y1 is a good age to start to learn string instruments, piano or recorder so joining a music group in reception is excellent preparation.

School is a very, very busy place. Pre-school is good for teaching simple routines, independence (not having an adult there all the time) and basic responsibilities e.g. respect the toys, take turns, share, kind hands etc.
Year R is just an extension of this, as it's still the EYFS curriculum. He may just feel like a rabbit in headlights if this is all very new. If he is used to having autonomy at home e.g. I want to be read to, I want to talk about my special interests, I want to do what I want to... Then he may not take well to being told 'you have xyz choice' or 'you need to get ABC done before lunchtime' and it causes a lot of processing to take place, hence why he's quiet, if he's taking in everything and processing it all quietly. I'd be considering if he's a) neurodivergent or b) just taking time to settle and realise he needs to apply himself to things he lacks motivation for. Encouragement in the later at home may help.

@Nant90 I read to my dc until age 10 or 11, well after she was reading independently. It was lovely connection time and about so much more than just reading. Keep doing that! Your son will be fine because he has the safety of his relationship with you and his dad. You said he seems happy to go to school and that’s important. I also think little and often is best with learning to read because it is so arduous (especially the reading primers, we hated those 😆).

Yes the meeting could have been better and the other teacher may have more positive things to say. The first teacher could perhaps think more about her delivery. But I agree with the pp who said that nothing she told you actually contradicted what you already knew about him. He doesn’t like reading and writing (but he’ll get there). He’s not the loudest child in the room (but that doesn’t matter, as long as he’s happy). He may lack some of the socialisation and confidence of the other children but again, those things will come.

Don’t fixate on the school’s low outcomes. Many of the kids in deprived families will fall behind as they get older because their disadvantages will impact them in a cumulative way. Whether or not they are ‘better’ right now. Your son has none of those issues and is better placed to succeed long term- but it’s at his pace, and our education system is very arbitrary about the targets for young children. Remember, a year at this age is around 20-25% of their whole life- the equivalent to a decade for you or me. There are bound to be vast disparities in each child’s ability in different skills, and these will likely reduce as they get older.