To think that now is the time for powerful voices to speak up…

[Alifemoreordinary123]

I’m not highly educated or hugely politically savvy. But like many people, I’m horrified by Trump and Musk’s approach, propaganda and ideology. It’s increasingly possibly they will take the world to a very dark place. I keep thinking, surely there are enough counter powers - people with power and influence, leaders from business, media, the arts, politics across the Western world to try and counter some of their rhetoric. I’m not naive to the immense power they hold, but surely reason, sense, logic and hope will win over?

You literally said you were glad he won the second time.

Again, if honesty and truth isn't your bag, then sure, vote for narcissists.

He hasn’t been ‘made out’ to be awful. He’s proved himself to be awful time and time again.

'If an argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny, we should all vote for self-serving egomaniacs and have more of the same.'

Well, yes. Because if an argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny it's no good, is it? Maybe get better arguments?

Because there has been lots of manipulation of voters on social media.

Because lots of voters are hugely uneducated and easily manipulated (we saw that with Brexit too).

Because the economy is in a crap place and that tends to lead people who lack much knowledge to lean towards the right.

Because some very silly people focused on one specific issue that they agreed with trump on and ignored everything that was wrong with Trump

Etc etc.

Also "however awful he has been made out to be" is a very bizarre way of describing a self proclaimed "pussy grabber" who is also convicted Felon (and that's just for starters @rabbitwoman )

I was referring to your arguments 🤣🤣. They don't hold up to scrutiny. Much like brexiteers arguments. Instead people vote for fascists and scream "i wasn't listened to" when actually they were, they just lacked logic and reason in their arguments.

'You literally said you were glad he won the second time.'

Because I consider him better than the alternative.......

That's my point. Your arguments don't hold any water. Women's rights, but not really. Child safeguarding but not really. Then you're happy a narcissist gets into power so you can have MORE of the same.

See. That's illogical.

On all issues, or just on "womens rights" ?

(Despite the fact he is anti women having any rights over their own bodies)

It's brexit all over again. Fingers in ears. "La la la la la can't hear you". And somehow we're to blame for that. Gaslighting on an epic scale.

I can't compel large numbers of people to vote for anyone, nor would I want to. If my arguments don't hold up to scrutiny, I am fine with that. You should be too and vote as you wish, accordingly.

Unfortunately, that's what 77m Americans did. You seem very disappointed in that. I can see why they did, though, and I think media lies and manipulation go both ways.

I mean, these 77m people have just voted in a puppet dictator, who is letting Musk ride roughshod over the constitution. But sure,.it's all grand.

Yes. It's Brexit all over again. Shame lessons weren't learnt then, hey!!

Yeah some go more ways than others.

I can't compel large numbers of people to vote how they vote either. Funny how the line gets trotted out on here "I wasn't listened to and so I voted for a prick" time and time again. When in actual fact you ARE being listened to, you just don't have a sense of fair play. I mean the royal "you" btw.

It's so like Brexit. And like with Brexit the people who voted for it will probably mainly be in the demographic that will suffer the most.

What genuinely is there to "learn"? If we kowtow to the hard of thinking they'll magically stop being hard of thinking?

That's just silly.

Also if my arguments don't hold up to scrutiny, I don't double down on it, I question it/myself. So no, I'm not "fine with it". People who vote for fascists would do well to try it in future.

But, as usual, it was only “banter”.Extraordinary that a woman would trot out this tired old excuse.

When it comes to my vote and my personal opinions I don't need a sense of fair play, do I?

I am not running for office and I don't control any kind of media platform either so the only thing I have to do fairly when it comes to voting is listen, make a decision, and put my cross in the box, yes?

I think it's "if the parties on the left won't give me exactly what I think I want on every policy then I'll vote in a [catastrophic decoupling from Europe/fascist dictatorship] because they have said one thing I sort of like the sound of and I am prepared to ignore all their less wholesome messages

We don't know whether Rabbitwoman is a woman to be fair.

But there are some women who are apologists for rapists and misogynists, so I suppose he/she/they could be.

Well then you've undermined any shred of credibility you had when making your point. Believe it or not, to some people a sense of fair play actually matters.

Extraordinary and really, really depressing.

We don’t. But their reasons around the trans issue are indicative that they are.

Doubt rabbitwoman is a woman. Even more doubtful they were ever a socialist at heart. Yeah maybe there should be an IQ test before people are allowed to vote