To think that now is the time for powerful voices to speak up…

[Alifemoreordinary123]

I’m not highly educated or hugely politically savvy. But like many people, I’m horrified by Trump and Musk’s approach, propaganda and ideology. It’s increasingly possibly they will take the world to a very dark place. I keep thinking, surely there are enough counter powers - people with power and influence, leaders from business, media, the arts, politics across the Western world to try and counter some of their rhetoric. I’m not naive to the immense power they hold, but surely reason, sense, logic and hope will win over?

Maybe @rabbitwoman only watches Fox news?

I would not be consenting, or signalling in any way that I consent to that.

I would not have a lot of respect for a woman who did consent and sought it out, but that would not be any of my business.

As for silly banter, well, there is a time and a place. Trump doesn't seem to judge that very well, which is not great for a statesman. Eminent statesman such as Clinton or Kennedy have been equally misogynist, but more discreet, I wish there were decent alternatives but in 2024, there weren't.

Does that clear it up for you? I doubt it because you are confident in your opinions. That's great. My opinion is stable right now but likely to change with evidence and a good argument, which I have not received.

This is politics. I wish there was a better system, but we have not found one yet.

Don't treat them like an idiot @Madamweb. It's not their fault they don't make sense.

Maybe, but even Fox News doesn't manage to make Trump look humble or gracious. Those are simply not the words that I would expect even his most rabid supporters to associate with him.

I understand that some people admire what they perceive to be his strength, his irreverence for all the usual rules of engagement, his tendency to disrupt etc. I don't agree with them, but I can understand at least how they are perceiving things. But graciousness and humility? Seriously?

It seems pretty self-evident to me that graciousness and humility would not be amongst the values of Trump supporters, because his extreme deficiencies in these areas would inevitably alienate anyone who puts even the slightest importance on such things.

I don't think consent is in Trumps vocabulary.

Looking at Google Maps Ukraine. Have a look.

Well, yes, I agree. Sadly, I think our democracy is going to be further eroded in the coming years.

Hold up. You’re calling other people who disagree with you fascists but you’ve just clearly stated you don’t believe in democracy but dictatorships.

Interesting.

But we don’t even have to go back more than a handful of years to find a very illustrative example of when the voting public ignores the bleeding obvious. Think of BoJo. When he emerged as a Brexiter in 2016 the voters were all: what an unscrupulous lying chancer, but hey, he’s a fun guy! We’d have a pint with him! When he stood for leader and before the election in which he got a majority, even the right wing papers dragged out his school reports from Eton that basically said: Boris is an unscrupulous lying chancer who thinks the rules don’t apply to him.

And lo and behold, a couple of years later the voters were all: OMG guys, do you know that Boris is an unscrupulous lying chancer who locked us in our houses and then had parties because he thought the rules didn’t apply to him? OMG, how were we so deceived? 😱😭

Wheb actually everyone had always known that Boris was an utter disaster. They just liked the scams he was selling.

Same with Trump. The voters aren’t somehow magically right. They just like the lies he’s peddling.

Aye, it's called sarcasm.

And Trump wouldn't care whether you consented or not

The accusation of shortsighted is an interesting one. Can you explain your longsighted view of how events are likely to unfold once the war is 'over' and why it's such a good thing?

The truth is that plenty voices did speak up, but the second time around the writing was on the wall and so everyone is now putting is using their "worse case scenarios" planning. As Trump is so chaotic its going to involve a lot of ego stroking and gritting of teeth. This is what politicians are very very good at doing.

How much more speaking up could there be? People spoke up before the election that Trump won.

What, getting on the right side of arguably the most powerful/dangerous man in the world!? Er, yes, I'd definitely say that was a good thing.
You know what they say: 'Keep your friends close and your enemies closer...'

How naive are you? Stopping fraud? Trump is a long time major fraudster who should be in jail.
Last thing I heard him say was that Ukraine was to blame for being invaded by Russia. And last I read of him was a push to have sanctions lifted against the sex trafficking misogynist Andrew Tate.
But yeah, let's cheer him on anyway.🤔

You are still unaware of so much.

Painfully unaware.

What friends is he keeping close?

Canada? Because repeatedly hearing we will be the 51st State isn’t helping our relationship.

Blessed Day

So are you suggesting that the women he grabs are somehow consenting by ‘signalling’ their consent in some way?

Are you saying that any sexual assault claims made against him are false? That the women are somehow ‘signalling’ their consent?

Are you saying that you would not be at risk of that because you’d be somehow better at ‘signalling’ non consent?

How would you feel if you met a man and he greeted you by grabbing your pussy? Or kissing you sexually?

For any adult who is considering making a sexual move on another adult today, could you clarify what kind of signals, or lack of, we should be looking out for? If I’m about to grab a man’s penis without exchanging words, how do I know that he is consenting without asking?

Well put.

Would you have said the same about Hitler? And I make that comparison without a hint of flippancy.

Andrew Tate? Didn’t know that. It’s doesn’t surprise me but nevertheless I’m shocked. And utterly depressed.

I for one hope the rest of the world does. France and the UK have committed troops.

Not to fight, only 30k

This and pp who mentioned celebrities, some media, on here, loads speaking up