Daughter’s friend acts like a twat

[outthereandbeyond]

I’m failing as a parent here because I really don’t know where the boundary is.

my DD (8) has a friend (8) who really behaves badly, like all the time. On play dates, she is rude, never says please/thank you, throws things, breaks things (in my house) will have meltdowns and cry literally like a baby over the smallest things. Demands food then won’t eat it, defies rules when we’re together. Just everything annoying you could possibley think of in a child.

I’m ADHD, single mum & can get triggered when im overwhelmed. She came over for a play date yesterday and pushed me beyond my limits. I get a splitting headache whenever she’s around.

the mum is a good friend of mine, and I’ve tried speaking to her about it and suggesting small edits to how we parent in the pretence that we’re both fumbling through this journey. For example I suggest encouraging her to model using word when daughter cries instead of tears, or encouring our children to put on their own shoes (this child refuses to get dressed alone). My friend insists that my daughter is just as bad (she really isn’t) but I say yeah yeah, so as not to offend and to let them be as they’re finding their way in the world. I just disagree with this and feel that the girl plays up because the mum never models good behaviour.

Here is where everyone will shoot me…, my friend says she suspects her now to be SEN/autistic which would make sense - only SUSPECTS, not diagnosed. My daughter IS diagnosed with SEN.

But now my daughter accepts this awful behaviour when they’re on play dates and I don’t think my daughter should be putting up with this. One time this girl refused to wipe her bum after a poo and asked me to do it (our house). I explained that I wasn’t going to touch her body as it was private and that she ought to wipe herself or pull up her pants and deal with it at home. She screamed and cried for me to do it but I kindly declined as o didn’t think it was right to touch her, after all I wouldn’t be comfortable with someone doing it to my daughter at 8. After a few minutes all was quiet. When I went to check, my daughter, was wiping her bum for her. I pulled daughter aside and said ‘honey. That’s not your responsibility but your friends’ but my daughter said she would do it as she has special needs (not diagnosed, mind).

I told the mum and she said she thought it was fine as that’s what friends should do…. 🤯

help me, I want to guide my daughter and I don’t think she should be putting up with this in a friendship.

if I am wrong then please tell me gently.

This!!
There is absolutely no way I would have this child for a play date again. It's not yours, or your daughters responsibility to clean this child up!

This is very obviously not normal behaviour for an 8 year old. Even ones that are a bit naughty don't poo themselves in the park or want their friends to wipe their bum. The latter being quite a concerning safeguarding issue. There is quite obviously something else going on. I'd be stopping all play dates and encouraging your friend to seek out some support from the GP/push at looking into a diagnosis, for everyone's sanity! If the mum isn’t interested in doing anything about this, it’s absolutely on for you to not pursue this friendship with both her and her daughter anymore.

Not wiping themselves at EIGHT?

Stop the play dates for both your sakes. It's clearly not good for your family at this point.

If this friendship is important to you and you don't want to lose the mum then maybe you could see them out of the house where the mum can manage the child.

Stop reading it, then.

God that sounds awful op. All I can suggest is stop the play dates, although I understand it's not easy

Don't have her round? Is there a reason you feel you have to?

I think "she made my daughter wipe poo off her bum, so let's have a break from play dates" should be heard loud and clear.

She probably isn't SEN, but that's not up to you. Your daughter was once undiagnosed too. Not that any of that matters, she's not good for you or your daughter, so that's enough of that now

Your replies are cracking me up. 🙏😆

Pearl clutchers over that way perleeease ↪️

I was wondering the same thing.

How did you want her to reply? Do you want the mum to scald the child and look utterly embarrassed? A child with SEN traits has an accident on the back of ongoing toileting issues and likely the best way forward is to avoid making a huge issue and resolving mess quickly. It’s a shame that the incident happened while eating but please bear in mind it may not be intentional.

What do you mean how do I want her to respond? I wasn't there and don't know the mum so I'm asking OP about the bigger picture. If the friend has ongoing issues with toileting surely the appropriate thing for a parent to do would be to either go with her to other people's houses, or let hosts know in advance so they can be prepared. The fact that DD on the other occasion wiped the girls bum and the mum seemed fine with that does not sound like she is taking her care seriously at all (if it is an intimate care need not oppositional behaviour or similar)

How do YOU know this is an SEN issue and not a child who is being neglected, abused or otherwise exposed to something that has caused her to be traumatised and dysregulated? Seems worth asking as OP has mentioned her friend's lack of parenting multiple times.

Stop having the child over. It's hard to criticise others' parenting so maybe suggest going out somewhere so you're not hosting. I have a friend who brings her DC to ours for play dates and I've started suggesting we go elsewhere as they fight and hit my DC. Again she thinks they're the same but I don't they they are and her DC sit here playing with my DC's things while my DC is left out as they've fallen out. He's not as bad as what you've described at all I should say but enough for it to bother me as being unfair to my DC.

Please stop the play dates! It’s not fair to all of you but especially your daughter. Have a chat with your girl about why and how you need some time away from her until her behaviour improves so she knows it’s not her fault. Your friend needs to step up and get the ball rolling for a diagnosis if that’s what she believes but also consider that these play dates are too stressful for her daughter as well. She either has SEN as well but if not then she needs to work on boundaries and acceptance behaviour. In fact she should be doing that anyway. Both my girls are ND and I would stay on play dates until much older to deal with flare ups and potential meltdowns. My ED had a friend just like your daughter does and it took me too long to stop the play dates. Our stress levels dropped significantly once I said no we couldn’t have her round anymore. Had to have an awkward conversation with her mum but ended up staying friends. We would only meet up without the kids and it worked for us. My daughter is now 23 and she suggests to stop them because she can’t still remember how overwhelming and uncomfortable it all was so it’s not benefiting anyone. Good luck!

Just here to point out you said acts like a twat not that the child is a twat so everyone jumping on that needs to settle down as what you've described is very much twattish behaviour.
You need to walk away from this one @outthereandbeyond this isn't a friendship you want to encourage or continue. I agree with social stories around friendship and teaching yes be kind to others but not at the detriment to yourself and your own boundaries to your DD going forward as she navigates friendships, especially moving up to secondary school in a few years.
Take the gift of the child acting like a twat moving away and to a new school for the glorious gift it is and find yourself very busy and unable to meet up/facilitate play dates whilst steering your DD to kids who have been taught how to behave properly.
SEN may be the reason but it should NEVER be the excuse for acting like a twat, kind regards single mum to 2 DC both diagnosed with SEN and on rare occasions can display twattish behaviour before being taught that's not the correct way to behave 😀

As others have said, just stop hosting the child without the mother. If she’s your friend then presumably you often meet up with both children, so your daughter will still get to play with her friend, while you catch up with yours.

My youngest has many delightful friends but he also has a friend who although he is full of fun, he is very rough (my boys are very active and can be boisterous but in the normal scale of things) and he doesn’t stop when asked not to push/punch/wrestle etc. I am a boy mum and used to my own children wrestling etc, but when their friends are round I ask them not to be physical with each other as some boys don’t like that sort of play, and also there’s the worry of one of them getting hurt whilst under my care. This one boy just never listened and carried on regardless as soon as my back was turned. So sadly he’s no longer invited to our house. I can’t take responsibility for a child that can’t follow simple rules. I didn’t make a big thing of it, just stopped inviting him. DS2 and the boy are still friends at school.

Stop having the child over if their behaviour is unacceptable. Your friend sounds like she has taken a crash course in denial:

"My friend insists that my daughter is just as bad"

Projection is lesson one. People really need to get it through their skulls that denying reality doesn't change reality, no matter how much they want it to.

Why are you having this child over? Encourage your daughter to make more friends. Don’t make this your problem.

I don’t know. It’s just the two of them. I know the girl is always on her iPad playing Roblox. I know the girl goes to bed super late, and I know, based on what mum told me, she rarely comes out of room. They have dinner separately, girl in her room, mum downstairs. When we’ve been over, the food is always horrifically processed crap.

I'm saying all this and now im wondering the fuck I’ve been thinking all this time, thinking it’s ok. But it’s because our friendships go back decades, we were never close till we had our daughters in similar circumstances.

It's difficult to drop friends you've know for most of your life.
One of the best things I've ever done was to stop seeing a friend that was toxic to be around. I wish I had done it sooner.

Reduce the playdates, and start distancing yourself away. Your daughter shouldn't have to deal with this other child's behaviour and quite honestly neither should you.

I'm no kind of expert in parenting or behaviour but I think that the kind of behaviour you're describing wouldn't just come from less than ideal parenting. I think unless SEN involved there would have to be some serious issues in the home, either current or in the past. It's obviously hard to know when you're a friend and you're not there all the time. But I don't think kids act that way for no reason.

It still doesn't mean you need to accept that kind of behaviour in your home, though. I just wonder if the mum needs some actual proper parenting support, if her DD is behaving like this becomes her needs are not being met.

100% this. I tell be a toxic friendship for your daughter & likely to make her miserable
I teach loads of kids with ADHD/Autism & most of them need me to make adjustments, but they are basically nice kids & they try really hard to meet you half way - just takes longer
This is just poor behaviour & selfishness/immaturity & look at the impact it’s having on you! Can’t you explain to your friend the physical impact it has on you because of your SEN & that you can’t have her over til her behaviour improves? Her mum has to decide whether she can be bothered to make the effort or if she wants her daughter to be shunned by others, because most people aren’t putting up with that

On top of everything other people have said, I’d also be having a very serious conversation with your daughter about what to do when others are asking her to do inappropriate things. She should know what is acceptable and what isn’t among friends. She should never be saying yes to touching other people’s private parts.

Oh my god no. Absolutely no to all of it.
Your poor daughter feeling like she had to wipe her friend’s bum after a poo because her friend is a fricking brat.
SEN or not, I’ve met lots of SEN children and maybe 1 or 2 of them behave like this because of their parents.
Some children are brats and don’t grow up to be any different.

If this is a friend you can afford to lose (don’t work with her/don’t live next door) then I’d be calling it a day.

I'd wonder how you are disciplining the child in your house OP? It seems like you are just observing the bad behaviour not dealing with it. it's your house, your rules so when she is in your house you need to lay down the law. If she isn't getting enough discipline or good modeling at home then she hasn't learned how to behave properly. For example if she demands something you tell her to ask nicely and use manners, refusing to give her the thing until she follows direction. If you keep reinforcing this she will learn quickly. Threatening to tell her mother is a waste of time if the standards are low at home. I think you'd be doing this child and your DD a favour by being really firm here. Stopping play dates altogether might not be the best solution but I agree with PP you should reduce them.

If you cared about yourself and your daughter this won’t be happening