Daughter’s friend acts like a twat

[outthereandbeyond]

I’m failing as a parent here because I really don’t know where the boundary is.

my DD (8) has a friend (8) who really behaves badly, like all the time. On play dates, she is rude, never says please/thank you, throws things, breaks things (in my house) will have meltdowns and cry literally like a baby over the smallest things. Demands food then won’t eat it, defies rules when we’re together. Just everything annoying you could possibley think of in a child.

I’m ADHD, single mum & can get triggered when im overwhelmed. She came over for a play date yesterday and pushed me beyond my limits. I get a splitting headache whenever she’s around.

the mum is a good friend of mine, and I’ve tried speaking to her about it and suggesting small edits to how we parent in the pretence that we’re both fumbling through this journey. For example I suggest encouraging her to model using word when daughter cries instead of tears, or encouring our children to put on their own shoes (this child refuses to get dressed alone). My friend insists that my daughter is just as bad (she really isn’t) but I say yeah yeah, so as not to offend and to let them be as they’re finding their way in the world. I just disagree with this and feel that the girl plays up because the mum never models good behaviour.

Here is where everyone will shoot me…, my friend says she suspects her now to be SEN/autistic which would make sense - only SUSPECTS, not diagnosed. My daughter IS diagnosed with SEN.

But now my daughter accepts this awful behaviour when they’re on play dates and I don’t think my daughter should be putting up with this. One time this girl refused to wipe her bum after a poo and asked me to do it (our house). I explained that I wasn’t going to touch her body as it was private and that she ought to wipe herself or pull up her pants and deal with it at home. She screamed and cried for me to do it but I kindly declined as o didn’t think it was right to touch her, after all I wouldn’t be comfortable with someone doing it to my daughter at 8. After a few minutes all was quiet. When I went to check, my daughter, was wiping her bum for her. I pulled daughter aside and said ‘honey. That’s not your responsibility but your friends’ but my daughter said she would do it as she has special needs (not diagnosed, mind).

I told the mum and she said she thought it was fine as that’s what friends should do…. 🤯

help me, I want to guide my daughter and I don’t think she should be putting up with this in a friendship.

if I am wrong then please tell me gently.

Some 8 year olds are twats though.

OP didn't call her that, she’s just written it on an anonymous forum, there’s a big difference.

OP stop the play dates for your own sanity and as importantly for your DD.

Ditch the mum and the girl. There is no future in this friendship and it's not going to get better.

I would call her mum to pick her up if she was demanding her bum was wiped. It’s not appropriate and a safeguarding issue if she’s asking other people to wipe her bum and this hasn’t been communicated to you in advance. School certainly won’t be doing this kind of intimate care without a diagnosis and a care plan.

I voted YABU because you continue to put up with this behaviour. No more play dates! It’s really that simple.

OP why would you do anything but stop the playdates??

You say that you and the mother are also friends? No friend would continue to allow you to look after their child, while they're behaving so badly.

Your DD sounds quite vulnerable and you need to think carefully about who you welcome into her life. Tbh, you sound quite vulnerable yourself.

Take care and put what's in your DD's best interests first.

If you find yourself in that situation, I would strongly suggest ringing their parent. Do not wipe an 8 year old’s bum. It’s extremely inappropriate and you could find yourself in quite a lot of trouble.

Stop having her over. Just say you can't be doing with the misbehaving and maybe when she's a bit older.

An eight-year-old had a tantrum and made your daughter wipe her arse?! I’d say that’s the perfect excuse never to have this child set foot in your home again, and I would also be explaining that very clearly to her parents. Totally unacceptable behaviour.

This us an easy fix OP. The girl never comes to your home again, nor your DD to hers.

Your child is a) 5 and b) your own child. That is very, very different from wiping the bum of someone else’s 8-year-old (who as she has no diagnosed SEN will absolutely not be getting her arse wiped by anyone at school and can therefore do it elsewhere too).

Yes, so did I. You can’t change someone else’s behaviour, OP, whether parent or child. All you can change is your own.

That's fair, I think as my dd is my only one, and she has autism, I'm overjoyed she's now using the toilet and I'm fine with wiping her

I can accept that at 8, that's not the norm in most households 😬 though

Fair enough 😭 I can accept that

Okay fine fair enough, you're right about getting into trouble

With dd's asd, I'm very much not wanting the kid to feel bad but at 8, (as long as the child doesn't have a disability) fair enough, not the best idea to wipe them

It's hard with sen parenting because there's a lot of judgement within the community

One boundary i have is, I will make dd's safe foods but she has to eat what ive made.

I'm not making a bunch of different dinners because she won't eat them, if that makes sense. I've gotten flack for that, could explain the struggles with the child described by the op.

She wouldn’t get a second play date in my house.

Personally I would stop entertaining this friendship and encourage my child to develop other friendships. If they are friends at school then so be it but I wouldn’t have them at my home.

i wouldn’t have a child in my house that demands and has no manners.

Easy easy. We’re not having continuous play dates for this very reason. My daughter literally begs me as they’re best friends. They saw each other probably about a month ago for a play date. I have gently mentioned this behaviour isn’t normal for a friendship hence why I’ve reduced them.

Your daughter is obviously a sweet, kind child to have wiped her friends bottom. And you can take a lot of credit for her being that way. But I think you should double down on the rules children are taught about private parts of the body. I’m not suggesting there was anything more untoward about the child asking your daughter to wipe her other than laziness (although that is definitely not something she should feel obliged to do). But this blurs the rules and might make your daughter more vulnerable in a less innocent situation.

Your daughter sounds like a very sweet and compassionate little girl, OP. I’m glad you recognise that this other girl is trampling on boundaries that your daughter has a right to maintain, even if her friend (and/or the friend’s mother) is having a difficult time. It doesn’t fall to either you or your daughter to manage the other girl’s needs. Like others have said, I think encouraging her in other friendships is the way to go. That way she’ll have more examples of what healthy friendships look like and will become better equipped to say no when the less healthy ones arise.

As soon as the arse wiping issue arose, I'd have told her I was calling her mum, as that was not my job to do, then I would have called her, in front of her and got her to come take the child home! Then just don't invite her again. She obviously pushed her luck all the time she was at your house, that should have been the last straw frankly!
You need to steer your daughter away from these kind of manipulative friendships for her own sake.
When I was 8, in the 70s, a (lot) older girl who lived not far away, took more than an interest in me. I can't even remember how we became friends. My mum wasn't keen, due to the age gap and the fact she was very sneaky in other ways. She would tell me to go ask my mum for things, but say it was me that wanted them. Money, sweets, food, can she stay for tea, can you bake a cake and so on. My mum knew it wasn't me asking.
She'd come and "play" and then she suddenly started insisting on "taking me to the toilet". I was absolutely horrified, as I could manage this by myself, so I used to have to lock the door to prevent her coming in. She shut the door to my bedroom one afternoon, (we lived in a bungalow and mum was in the kitchen next to my room) as she wanted to play "mummies and daddies". Thankfully, I can't actually remember how far anything got, (apart from her saying it was our secret?!) but my mum shouted and asked what was happening in there, to open the door please and then she said that this girl needed to leave, now! And she was told in no uncertain terms not to come back.
Mum questioned me when she'd left, but as I didn't know what had happened, she had to leave it. But I was told that she was no longer welcome at our house. I accepted that!
I know it's hard to imagine children being so manipulative, but there are examples out there and your children need to be protected from them at all costs.

Not necessarily - it could be that OP knows that the friend can and does wipe her own bum normally and this is oppositional behaviour. It may not be that she has physical care needs.

In that situation I would have called her mum straight away to come.

It sounds like OP and this parent are good friends so could have that conversation. My son’s friend (mentioned) only eats certain stuff so I check that we have something suitable or buy it in. That’s fine. I wouldn’t be wasting loads though.

I noticed how you've said that you do not know where the boundaries are, and also that your daughter often does things beyond the norm to appease this girl.

You are uncomfortable with this friendship so playdates need to stop. It sounds like BOTH you and DD perhaps are putting yourselves out to appease people.

Perhaps you could do some work on identify and enforcing your own boundaries, as I think that will be a great way to teach DD to do the same.

I'm a believer in making home safe, so I won't make something she won't eat, but if I'm making the safe food as agreed (agreed being her pointing to them out of a range) I won't then waste that and make something else

It isn't easy 😕

I feel for the kid, but the op can't be shouldering the problems