State school 6th forms oversubscribed

[LordGiveMeStrength]

AIBU to be concerned about the impact the new VAT on private schools will have on state school 6th forms?

Our local 6th form open days have been jam packed with so many year 11s moving from private schools.

Issues I see:

1. kids who have been at the local state secondary school since year 7 have been told their space in the 6th form is not guaranteed and if they don’t get as high GCSE results as other potential pupils they will not have a spot. The nearest private schools have amazing GCSE results so very likely to displace existing students to other state school options a far distance from their homes.
2. infrastructure - the local school is already heaving so accommodating a huge influx is not possible, buildings are already crumbling and it will take a long time before investment actually happens to improve the facilities.
3. false economy- currently kids in private schools don’t cost the government to be educated. Government’s plans are that money raised from VAT will pay for additional teachers (but I don’t see that happening immediately). If lots of private schools kids move to the state system not only will government not collect that VAT, but they will all be liable for educating pupils who previously were in the private sector. I believe the current cost from central government to educate in 6th form is £5k with additional payments for more academic subjects (eg further maths A level pupils will equal an additional £900 per pupil per year in the state schools). Apologies if these sums aren’t correct.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/private-school-parents-vat-state-sixth-forms-3473062?srsltid=AfmBOopXOi5842QMq-qO1NqHGR9g9-4BOi6Gc0v_dlhBbFBTMmU5Prsi

And the private schools around here only offer a tiny range of a levels compared to the big sixth form colleges, again children who do well in their GCSEs at private tend to nearly all move to one of the academic focussed sixth form colleges already, so it's highly unlikely to make a difference

That’s looking at is as a snapshot of cost rather than across the years. When my dd started her private school in year 9, it was 13.5k. She’s now year 12. Including the vat hike the cost 18k (ok a bit less as we didn’t pay vat on term 1). That’s a heck of a jump and there comes a point, where you question if it’s worth it.

I did try to get dd to go to state 6th form. But it became apparent she was too unwell for that. She is where she needs to be. But I never imagined it would go up 4.5k in those short years. Next year it will be over 19k. That does put it in a different league tbh.

Yes we will move DD at end Yr 11 to state 6th form. VAT is a huge tipping point and whilst we can scrimp through the next 3 years, we can't do additional 2 years plus Uni.

@RedSkyDelights Yes. They can select. This is a grammar admission criteria - see the GCSE results section. Plus schools often select on a points system for GCSEs.

My image of an admissions statement is under review???

All images are reviewed now

The birth rates decreasing though so don’t think school overcrowding is an issue is it?

Only 7% are at private schools anyway so it’s a drop in the ocean. Most of my friends with kids at private move them in the 6th form anyway and we’re always going to.

Oh boo hoo hoo. Guess this is what happens when you apply the crowd pleaser envy tax.

@TheaBrandt1 The popular schools will remain full. The less popular will see spaces. Precious few here! Birth rate won’t affect the best secondaries because they just take out of catchment, ie take dc from other school catchments. It’s way too simplistic to think a fall in birth rate will make all schools have vacancies.

It used to be that 18% of pupils were in a private 6th form. So the opposite of what your friends do and there’s quite a few who would pay for 2 years but not 12. There are private schools that don’t have 6th forms but where there is a 6th form, historically most have stayed on unless no money left, they don’t qualify for the 6th form or there’s a grammar available that’s more academic. It will be interesting to see if the % in private 6th forms declines sharply.

Nice try!

State 6th forms being oversubscribed is just not an issue because of falling numbers Any Google will show you stories of 6th forms closing because of lack of pupils. Courses are also being cut.

Finally 6th form open days are always jam packed.

Nope it was inevitable . I have kids in private- we can’t afford the vat increase - so state it is. Though we are moving to a nicer area so they get into the state grammar schools. I think labour will be happy as now they’ll be paying for my kids in state schools whereas we were before- so labour will be chuffed. And along with all the others who have left. Luckily without fees it means we can afford to move right on the doorstep of a catchment area grammar school- so Philipson and Starmer would be chuffed as that’s what they did ! They led the way

It all comes down to school policy. Around here, priority goes to children already at the school (as long as they make the grades for sixth form), then there are a list of other criteria and it's not a case of the highest grades get the place. Kids always move around heading into sixth form, some go to college, some to a different school.

It won't change things here at all, because the priority is always children staying on, and those that don't make the grades at GCSE aren't competing for the same type of provision as ex-private school high achievers anyway .

I live in a grammar school area and the pupils already at the schools are guaranteed a place if they meet the minimum grade criteria. The oversubscription criteria apply to pupils not already at the school.

@wombat Yes. So they select based on GCSE results. Dc who don’t qualify don’t get into the 6th form. There is no guarantee if you don’t get the results!

Every secondary school here (about 5 I know of) are prioritising home grown students. Most kids move from private for 6th form anyway. It's a non issue.

So you're choosing to pay SDLT rather than VAT (well I guess there will be VAT on the lawyers fees and removal fees etc)?
Each to their own, but unless you live in a very cheap part of the country I can't imagine the saving is going to be tangible

Grammar area and all the schools around me (grammar and comp) prioritise their own students. They have to accept their places the morning of GCSE results, and have to have the required grades, then it's a free for all.
I think the people most affected by the private "influx" are those hoping to move school (and those with no sixth forms), as there might be more competition for that.

Same here, maybe we are in the same area. Other than at the few remaining grammar schools there are no school 6th forms, everyone goes to college at 16. It is great and I've not heard of anyone not getting into their chosen courses other than if they don't meet the minimum GCSE grades. Even then there is the opportunity to resit or do another level 2 (at college) to eventually get there.

If they don't get the minimum criteria the guarantee is that they will have to leave. It has nothing to do with the school being oversubscribed.

My dc was at state 6th form years ago, around 15% of their intake was from private schools because they had a wider choice of subjects and results were really close to those of aforementioned private schools, it had a whole county catchment with many students catching the train in

None of our local 6th forms are over subscribed so I expect it’s a location thing. The one my DS wants to go to is selective and oversubscribed but because it’s so good and only take 200 pupils

If you’ve paid for your kids education all the way to year 11 surely the year 12 & 13 are 2 of the most important if your aspirations are Oxbridge why not just stay in private/public - the 20% vat can’t be THAT much of a burden? Just buy less avocados and Nespresso pods?

Many haven't paid for a private education all the way through though. Lots start at 11. Perhaps parents have been able to afford 5 years but decide that, now the fees are even higher, saving £50-60k on 2 years fees could go towards university fees, meaning that their children leave with minimal debt.

Most parents don't pay for independent schools all the way through. The majority start at 11 yrs old and therefore several extra £1000 (ie 8K extra) can (and is) a tipping point. We certainly can't afford it for 6th form