State school 6th forms oversubscribed

[LordGiveMeStrength]

AIBU to be concerned about the impact the new VAT on private schools will have on state school 6th forms?

Our local 6th form open days have been jam packed with so many year 11s moving from private schools.

Issues I see:

1. kids who have been at the local state secondary school since year 7 have been told their space in the 6th form is not guaranteed and if they don’t get as high GCSE results as other potential pupils they will not have a spot. The nearest private schools have amazing GCSE results so very likely to displace existing students to other state school options a far distance from their homes.
2. infrastructure - the local school is already heaving so accommodating a huge influx is not possible, buildings are already crumbling and it will take a long time before investment actually happens to improve the facilities.
3. false economy- currently kids in private schools don’t cost the government to be educated. Government’s plans are that money raised from VAT will pay for additional teachers (but I don’t see that happening immediately). If lots of private schools kids move to the state system not only will government not collect that VAT, but they will all be liable for educating pupils who previously were in the private sector. I believe the current cost from central government to educate in 6th form is £5k with additional payments for more academic subjects (eg further maths A level pupils will equal an additional £900 per pupil per year in the state schools). Apologies if these sums aren’t correct.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/private-school-parents-vat-state-sixth-forms-3473062?srsltid=AfmBOopXOi5842QMq-qO1NqHGR9g9-4BOi6Gc0v_dlhBbFBTMmU5Prsi

Our nearest Sixth Form takes about 1000 pupils per year. Private school pupils are a drop in the ocean (they tend to chose it for the wider range of subjects).

Are there really many parents who can afford it, now deciding that private sixth form is not worth £25K a year of value, who were quite happy that £20,800 was value for money?

We went to 4 6th form open days - different schools offer different subjects so we looked at all of them in case our local didnt provide the combination of subjects that DS wanted to do. They were not going to offer Geography so we were going to go elsewhere but in the end they had enough people to put it on.

most people I know also went to look round all 4 of the local schools - obviously only a 1/4 went to each school! so crammed open evening doesnt mean a thing!

Easily solved with a school policy change: priority to existing students who meet the grade requirement. This is pretty standard around here. Most of them also leave x% of spaces open to transfer students who make the grades.

There are lots of transfers from private at 6th form. Always have been. It's not been a problem. You just need good admissions policies.

Switching to state from private at sixth form has long been a thing. After all, 6th forms are a select group of students at every school - the ones who want to study further and had the necessary grades. It's an entirely different cohort to GCSE and so quite a few private school parents feel private 6th form does not offer the same advantages.

Aside from the private school VAT issue I'm surprised that anyone would expect a pupil to be guaranteed a 6th form place just because they've been a pupil at a school since year 7. It was like that in my day it's true - you basically just turned up on the first day of term at my school and said what you wanted to do! There were always a few pupils doing O level resits too. But that was in the days when most people left school at 16 and only a fairly small minority went on to do A levels, never mind a degree so I guess most ordinary state schools could more or less guarantee they'd never be oversubscribed for 6th form.
But now that's very different, with so many more pupils staying on for 6th form. The school my DC went to has had a formal application process for 6th form for at least a decade now and is always over subscribed. The other sought after schools in the area are the same and they are all effectively semi selective for 6th form, with minimum entry requirements both for 6th form in general and specific subjects. Most kids do stay in their original school but there's always some movement. There is usually a significant intake of pupils from other schools to our 6th form and some existing pupils who don't get offered places or who aren't allowed to do the A levels they want and there is no opportunity to resit any GCSEs.
It seems tough - one of my DS's friends was heartbroken a few years ago when he didn't get in because he'd not got the required maths grade even though he had done extremely well in the subjects he wanted to do for A level - but I can see it from the school's perspective too.
I think the real problem is that the shift to requiring more and more young people to stay in education longer hasn't been matched by investment in schools. Additional pupils from private schools will make next to no difference where I live because most of the private schools closed years ago - as a PP said, the biggest threat to private education is good state provision and we are fortunate to have that here. But the good 6th forms are heavily oversubscribed anyway.
I'm not sure by what proportion our school has increased 6th form numbers in recent years but they've built an extra building to accommodate them and it definitely seemed a lot bigger when my youngest left last year compared to when my eldest was there a decade ago. The fundamental problem is that we have too many children in an underfunded system. Extras entering from the private sector won't help, and in some areas may be significant, but they aren't the cause of the problem, that's far bigger and has existed for a lot longer. Requiring all 16-18 year olds to be in education and training and encouraging more to go to University sounds like a good idea on paper but only if you properly fund it, which successive governments have failed to do.

Well about half of DS's year group are. £50k saved over 6th form pays for uni or a house deposit as an alternative. That's not to say half of them will make the switch, but there is absolutely a lot more scrutiny over what you're actually getting for your money, whereas previously a lot of people just carried on, blindly into private 6th form without giving it much thought.

And not a "thing" in Scotland at all where we don't have "sixth form" and children just stay on at the same school they've been in since age 12, whatever their grades.

I live in a sixth form college area and have just checked a couple of admission policies, they both prioritise partner state schools and if you’re a partner school subject to you meeting the grade requirements you’re guaranteed a place. Distance then comes into it further down, so state school applicants are prioritised ahead of private school ones.

They can’t change their entry requirements with that short notice.
Every year we have more students with exceptional grades from outside apply than we have room for. We can’t simply get rid of internal students with lower grades.

If a subject is oversubscribed at a state sixth fom with people who have achieved the grades then they try to persuade people to change one of their subjects to one where there is a space.

It's not just the vat which is prompting pupil to change to state sixth forms - the Oxbridge effect. The private schools local to me have only a couple of students with offers but again the state schools in the next borough have been very successful and can play the widening access with the Russell group unis. Have heard of quite a few students heading along the Elizabeth line for sixth form open days

Local 6th form here isn't even having an intake in September 2025 as there was so low demand this year!

I live near 5 secondary schools in the SE not one of them has current students first. Ds moved from 1 to another for 6th form as he preferred their options. Many of his friends did similar.

To Op to me its pretty normal that only the higher achievers gets into certain schools.

Lots move at sixth form anyway, if the school is state it may get them a contextual lower offer - Bristol has a huge list of schools this applies to. Plus certain work experience and insight schemes are state only.
Uni costs are looming. If child will only get min loan £4750 in England then parents may be paying £8000/9000 a year in accommodation per child. I can see why parents think state will be a good option facing huge uni outlay. Driving lessons etc aren’t cheap - £70 a lesson, lots of mc parents fund them . 16-18 year olds are expensive - adult clothes, food etc.

Just to say, I thought from what I’d read that it was the school that you sat GCSEs at which counted in terms of widening participation not sixth form. I think universities are a bit more clued up to that sort of game.

How weird that it's so area-specific, we're also in the SE and looking across three council boundaries. While all have minimum GCSE tariffs for being able to do an A level in that subject, existing students get priority in all the schools.

Quite a few leave to go to sixth form colleges and some of the single sex schools go co ed for sixth form, and so the intake from outside is often over the PAN. But outside the supersectives, there's pretty strong consistency across schools that their own kids are prioritised if they meet entry requirements.

One of the frustrating things about education in England is the total mishmash of admissions arrangements.

Im in sw london and the schools near me prioritise internal students as long as you get the equivilant of a C in english, maths and your chosen subjects.

There's a big (well regarded) 6th form college nearby which i think is better in terms of it being a halfway transition to uni. Dh attended and felt it had given him the more "grown up" study skills vs those who had been at school.

A lot of students move anyway as big colleges have better choice of subjects

State sixth firms near me (Cambridge) have always selected on results.

Few give priority to students continuing.

Nearly everyone either changes school or goes to one of the big sixth form colleges.

This stuff as ever is a win win for the government. The criticism is regularly that we should go back to a system where only very bright kids can go to uni, the rest of them should join the labour force. This sorts that rather neatly.

SE here and there is no shortage of sixth form places. The maths and english conditions of funding are a bigger issue. In summary they make it too expensive for a school sixth form to take on students who need tk resit english and maths.

It's absolutely not true here
(2008/09 was a peak birth rate year, btw)
Local 6th forms are reducing subject offer and reducing entry requirements
Apparently, due to low application numbers
We have a few private schools around here, and there has not been an influx from them to state options

How many private schools do you have near you? There's barely any in our area. But also none of the secondaries have a 6th form either so kids have always had to go elsewhere. Not something on my radar really.

The school my kids go to prioritise existing pupils who make the required grades. They do have to apply by a set deadline so can't just turn up on 1st day of term and expect a place.

Pupils in schools in se academy trust come next then others. They state that nobody will be picked based on results as long as minimum grades are met

I love the assumption privately educated children will have better grades. Round here noone sensible with a bright child sends their child to private as the state schools are the better option academically (and it's not a grammar school area)

The Oxbridge effect is a myth as any contextualisation is based on where the applicant took their GCSEs.

I'm surprised that all of these houses next door to nice schools and sixth forms are suddenly up for sale. Most people buy a house and live in it. There won't suddenly be a churn of properties as the supply won't have changed, even if one or two more families are fretting about school fees.

You can apply to as many 6th forms and colleges as you like in your local area. Most will have far more applying than who actually accept places, in exactly the same way as you apply to 5 universities on UCAS and only end up going to one.

You really are being conned by the feeding frenzy and pearl clutching OP as it's a complete non issue. I suggest you stop reading the Telegraph as there are more than enough 6 form places to go around.