State school 6th forms oversubscribed

[LordGiveMeStrength]

AIBU to be concerned about the impact the new VAT on private schools will have on state school 6th forms?

Our local 6th form open days have been jam packed with so many year 11s moving from private schools.

Issues I see:

1. kids who have been at the local state secondary school since year 7 have been told their space in the 6th form is not guaranteed and if they don’t get as high GCSE results as other potential pupils they will not have a spot. The nearest private schools have amazing GCSE results so very likely to displace existing students to other state school options a far distance from their homes.
2. infrastructure - the local school is already heaving so accommodating a huge influx is not possible, buildings are already crumbling and it will take a long time before investment actually happens to improve the facilities.
3. false economy- currently kids in private schools don’t cost the government to be educated. Government’s plans are that money raised from VAT will pay for additional teachers (but I don’t see that happening immediately). If lots of private schools kids move to the state system not only will government not collect that VAT, but they will all be liable for educating pupils who previously were in the private sector. I believe the current cost from central government to educate in 6th form is £5k with additional payments for more academic subjects (eg further maths A level pupils will equal an additional £900 per pupil per year in the state schools). Apologies if these sums aren’t correct.

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/private-school-parents-vat-state-sixth-forms-3473062?srsltid=AfmBOopXOi5842QMq-qO1NqHGR9g9-4BOi6Gc0v_dlhBbFBTMmU5Prsi

Actually the year 11s of the smaller school my son went to with sport, canteen and everything else leave in droves every year to go the larger 6th form. They love having a Costa coffee on site & being treated more like adults.

The VAT is apparently paying for free breakfasts and 1/3 of a teacher per school - only it isn't ring-fenced.

So how is it being used to improve state school buildings? I can't see that anywhere in the Labour manifesto or anything from the DfE. Can you provide a source for this?

Can you also provide a source for the claim that parents who can afford private fees can afford 6th form fees? The amount being paid now is Y11 is vastly more than it will have been when parents entered the system 5 or more years ago. Now there is also an additional 20%.

Even if they can afford it, more parents will be considering whether they actual get value for money, and with the ever increasing cost of university may choose to save 2 years of fees towards that if they have good state options to choose from.

Every child that switches from private to state is a net loss to the taxpayer.

Bridget Phillipson has said any revenue from the VAT policy will go to breakfast clubs and 1/3 of an extra teacher per school. How will it go towards school buildings in that case? From this thread it seems that most posters’ DCs don’t eat school catering, so why would breakfast clubs help sixth formers? And if the VAT doesn’t raise the money Labour forecast (and the forecasting was a mess so likely not), is 1/3 of one teacher going to improve DCs’ A-level experience?

There are a lot of people who assume that somehow the VAT is a magic money tree policy. It may well end up costing the taxpayer more to collect than it actually raises. What’s the point in that? Do people on this thread REALLY think that it’s going to generate loads of magic bums on seats extra state sixth form funding? If so, I have a bridge or two I can interest you in….

Schrodinger's VAT 😆 They want more kids to move into state schools whilst yet simultaneously still having the same number paying VAT in order to fund the black hole.

They really won’t. Our massive sixth form college with plenty of spaces has no canteen or sports but it’s still outstanding. It’s also not stuck in the middle of nowhere so it’s very popular with the private and grammar educated.

Have you been on this thread ALL day?

Every day is a school day 😆

Basically in a nutshell apart from a tiny amount of places I think the anti VAT lobby are trying to scaremonger.

I’m not in favour of VAT on school fees. Both my kids went private although Ds moved to state part way through secondary. But in the scheme of things I don’t think it will have an adverse effect on state schools & 6th firms.

We had a local private school go bust about 10 years ago. The impact on state schools in the local area was huge, particularly at primary level. The local authority couldn't cope with the additional numbers and the Scottish Government was no help at all. In the end, the school re-opened under new management 2 years later and that's how the crisis was solved.

I have no issue of Government wants to target private schools if they want, and if people think they should be banned, that's fine too. However, people underestimate how it will impact on the local state school systems and the government need to face up to that and make sure education is properly funded to allow for that. 15% of Edinburgh's pupils are privately educated. That's almost 9,000 students who need to find places in schools. Those parents are going to either already be in the best performing catchment areas (as these are the wealthier areas of the city) or will choose to move to them. Half of Edinburgh's schools are over capacity. The two best performing schools are already over capacity and are having to refuse these children, who would otherwise be entitled to a place at the school.

At the moment, the government is paying less to educate the nation's children because people are choosing to go private. The saving the government is making is far more than they are getting back from cutting VAT on fees. This is a populist policy designed to send a message, not to improve the nation's finances. If that's their choice, that's fine, but let's not pretend they are doing it for the benefit of either children's education, or for the economy at large.

At the moment, the government is paying less to educate the nation's children because people are choosing to go private. The saving the government is making is far more than they are getting back from cutting VAT on fees. This is a populist policy designed to send a message, not to improve the nation's finances. If that's their choice, that's fine, but let's not pretend they are doing it for the benefit of either children's education, or for the economy at large.

True

DD has the same offer, 42 points from her best 8 subjects, at her current school as she does from two other schools. (All state). The open evenings and subsequent events were busy encouraging students to apply, not put them off, so I don't get the sense that a private school influx would have an adverse effect.