Private schools extra holidays - how does this not harm outcomes

[Eranie]

Looking at 3 private schools around us at the primary level.

School 1 -
8 weeks summer
1 week October
3 weeks Christmas
1 week February
3 weeks Easter
1 week May

17 weeks total

School 2 -
8 weeks summer
1 week October
2 weeks Christmas
1 week February
2 weeks Easter
1 week May

15 weeks total

School 3 -
6 weeks summer
2 weeks October
2 weeks Christmas
1 week February
2 weeks Easter
1 week May

14 weeks total

All these schools seem to be very good academically. All have similar length school days (8.45-3.15 in infants, 8.45-3.30 in juniors). The one with the most holidays caps class sizes at 16 and guarantees a TA present at all times in infants and over 50% of the time in juniors. Others seem to cap class sizes at 20-22, not sure if a TA is always present.

AIBU to wonder how the school with 3 week end of term breaks is keeping academically which so much less time? Does anyone have any insight on this?

I don’t work so we can handle the long breaks and we live the facilities better at the school with the longer breaks (further out of the city so has more land, therefore tennis courts/pool/better playing grounds. However I’m concerned that with longer breaks they will fall behind academically?

What are the starting/finishing times of the schools. Do they play sports during the day or outside school hours?

I would choose your preferred school regardless of the holidays.

In my kid's school, they seem to spend a lot of time playing sports and doing extra curricular activities during school hours (which I am fully on board with by the way as I think they are as important as academic work).

During covid, I remember reading that spending a couple of hours a day homeschooling was the equivalent of a full day at school when breaks/extra curricular activities etc were removed.

Because kids learn when they are ready.

Smaller class sizes and better ta provision. At primary age a lot of learning happens outside of the classroom too. Having time and attention in the family setting makes a huge difference.

Longer school days, focused teaching, very little disruptive behaviour, lots of homework.

I think they are all 8.45-3.15/3.30, maybe the one with the longest holidays is 8.30-3.30/45 but in my pros and cons I’ve wrote that they all have similar hours.

They do sports during the school day. At our favourite they have great clubs after school and it’s encouraged that from term 2 of reception they do at least one club a week. These include multi-sports/music/reading/dance and Latin and Debate further up the school.

Typically the days are longer; roughly 8am til 4pm core hours and 5pm finish with clubs or sports (that’s in prep, I think clubs and sports go later in senior school).

That doesn’t seem the case at these schools.

I just double checked, the one with the shortest holidays is
8.30-3.30 in Infants
8.30-3.45 in Juniors

If they are all on a par academically, surely that answers your question as to whether longer/shorter holidays have a knock on academic results?

You have already answered your own question.

Because presenteeism, despite what successive governments have tried to tell everyone, does not equal a better education.

My children go to private and have the same long holidays. End of school day is 5.30 in juniors if they stay for clubs which most do as they are brilliant. Now in secondary the school day finishes at 5.30pm. However, it’s often longer if they have matches or music. My 13 year old DD is in school from 7am-8.45pm 2 days a week as she chooses to do an early morning fitness class and orchestra (which is pretty much professional level) after school. She definitely does more hours than a state school child and is very focused and well rounded. They need the long holidays as they work then so hard. It’s a different pace of learning than at state, right from reception.

And agree..there’s little disruption so they crack through the lessons. One girl was expelled this week after starting in September for disrupting lessons at a low level. They take no messing.Also, the teachers know every child and it’s all very respectful. Lots of additional help if needed.

I work in a prep school, years 7 and 8 are here from 8am to 5.45pm. Prep starts at 4.30pm and there is games every day.

8.30am - 3.45pm is a very long day for primary.

Local state schools where I live are 8.50am - 3.30pm

but abig factor will be not dealing with behavioural issues & weeding out children with SEN.

My DS started reception last September at a non-selective but well-regarded prep school. I can only speak for his school but I suspect it’s fairly representative.

They have a broader curriculum than most state schools - so already doing Spanish, French, science, loads of sport as separate subjects. They also go on loads of trips, random walks and have special events / days what feels like once a fortnight. So they don’t actually spend that much time on phonics etc. However DS’s whole class is already at least on blue band phonics books (which is generally the expectation for start/ mid year 1).

I think this is due to

• able / school-ready cohort going in - most children have been to good nurseries and are used to some carpet time, following rules, know alphabet etc. All can go to the toilet on their own. They are also quite uniform in terms of ability so the school can teach at quite a fast pace and all children will keep up (or if they don’t they get loads of 1-1 support).
• behaviour is good- they aren’t all little angels- my DS definitely isn’t- but it is much easier to get children to behave with a 1-7 ratio and very few have significant behavioural problems
• the school plan lessons very carefully and the children don’t really have much truly unstructured play - the reception curriculum is play based but all the “play” is based round the phonics etc they are learning that week. Teachers seem to have a lot of planning time as many lessons are covered my specialist teachers. I know many state schools will also weave phonics etc into play but my impression from friends is that there is more time where the teacher puts some toys out and lets the children just play in most state schools (not necessarily a bad thing depending on your perspective)
• most parents are engaged and read at home regularly and will address issues quickly

Not to mention that in the later years 5-6 the academic focus towards 11+/ISEB and tutoring for selective schools skews the results.

If you want to know how a school ensures its children perform well academically with long breaks, it’s best to ask the school. For private school, 2 of the reasons could easily be they don’t take children with additional needs and they have small class sizes. That’s the case at a local private school near me with long holidays.

Class sizes play a huge part. A class with 12 can do things so much quicker than a class with 30 (asking 30 questions to get the class involved rather than 12, handing out 30 books, 30 pens, 30 printouts, 30 kids lining up for assembly, 30 kids putting their waterbottles away, 30 kids putting their hand up for the loo, 30 kids hanging their coats up, 30 kids arguing with their classmates or being distracted etc, it all adds up little by little to quite a lot of extra minutes in the day)

The teacher will have far less marking, planning and reporting for a class of 12 than a class of 30 so will (in theory) have fewer late nights and be more refreshed and energetic and may have more contact time with the class because their paperwork is less than if they had a bigger class.

So, in answer to your question, I don't think your kid would fall behind just because with a smaller class, they are more likely to get through the material quicker.

Additionally, private schools can crack down on disruptive behaviour and chuck people out far easier than state schools so there tends to be less time spent on crowd control in a smaller class in a private school.

Based on what you've presented, the school day is approximately an hour longer than most state schools and half the usual class sizes.

That allows for a lot of extra learning before factoring in more homework, less disruption etc. All together there's enough teaching/learning time for the children to do well.

In the five private schools I know of the days were much longer than that. 8.30-8.50 start and ended at 4pm, most 4.30. Clubs afterwards. A considerable amount of homework and some work given over holidays (which I don't agree with myself).
I think they are held to a higher standard.. They are expected to do well so they do.
Behaviour is also tightly monitored.

My DD was moved from public to private, she has a lot more holidays now than before. Her grades have been steadily progressing.

Small class sizes and a TA in the class in the early years make an enormous difference.

The length of the school year is irrelevant. Kids all over the world have much more time off school annually than British kids do - the factor that leads to success is small.class sizes, especially in the early years.

Homework: children do more learning in their own time
Tutoring: additional to fees. Especially when transitioning at say 7+/11+ to either keep up with peers, prep for exams to move or because that’s the done thing.
Accelerated curriculum - keep pushing the kids. Y3 work in y2 to ensure children are ready to keep up for entrance exams etc. Not sure this is always good lesson planning but for maths for example might be working out of set text books

The reality in many schools is that in addition to the long holiday periods children have a lot of additional activities that take them away from traditional learning because you can teach the same content in a shorter time because it’s just quicker with 15 than 30 and when there are no SEN needs to cater for.

We finished school at 430 week days and did Saturday school 3 out of 4 Saturdays a month until 2pm