Private schools extra holidays - how does this not harm outcomes

[Eranie]

Looking at 3 private schools around us at the primary level.

School 1 -
8 weeks summer
1 week October
3 weeks Christmas
1 week February
3 weeks Easter
1 week May

17 weeks total

School 2 -
8 weeks summer
1 week October
2 weeks Christmas
1 week February
2 weeks Easter
1 week May

15 weeks total

School 3 -
6 weeks summer
2 weeks October
2 weeks Christmas
1 week February
2 weeks Easter
1 week May

14 weeks total

All these schools seem to be very good academically. All have similar length school days (8.45-3.15 in infants, 8.45-3.30 in juniors). The one with the most holidays caps class sizes at 16 and guarantees a TA present at all times in infants and over 50% of the time in juniors. Others seem to cap class sizes at 20-22, not sure if a TA is always present.

AIBU to wonder how the school with 3 week end of term breaks is keeping academically which so much less time? Does anyone have any insight on this?

I don’t work so we can handle the long breaks and we live the facilities better at the school with the longer breaks (further out of the city so has more land, therefore tennis courts/pool/better playing grounds. However I’m concerned that with longer breaks they will fall behind academically?

Academic results shouldn't be the primary goal at junior age! Let them be kids!

There are too many other factors to take into account. You can't judge quality of education by the number of hours spent at school.

But that isn’t how exams work - no one is compared to everyone else, it’s about meeting standards. Results can go up and down, it isn’t a competition. Of course results are broadly similar year on year but that’s because over 600k kids the kids are similar.

@DobbyTheHouseElk where did you get the idea there are no inset days or bank holidays? Every PS I know and that my colleagues work in have both.

Because you don’t understand how exams actually work.

If you want to just look at private school results you can, again that is reported on publicly.

Mine had longer days. We started at 0830, finished at 1610, then 0830 to 1230 on Saturdays.

Compare that to my kids' school, 0845 to 1510. Or the school down the road, 0840 to 1445. They practically do a half day compared!

Smaller classes. Fewer kids with SEN.
Kids have all the equipment they need. Kids probably all go in after a decent breakfast. Possibly even almost door to door school bus pick up. Plenty of equipment.
Everyone less stressed and in a better place to hit the ground running.

No that is not how exams work!

The grades are linked to all that took the exam and then allocated each year!

A star A level one year has different boundaries to another year. Therefore, it would be interesting to find out how much private school pupils who achieve collectively significantly higher grades and state schools who achieve consistently lower grades affects those grading boundaries each year for everyone.

Not according to the statistics on who gets extra time for exams as private schools have 50% compared to 30% in state.

Private schools can be selective with their students and so teachers spend less time on behaviour management and providing support to the less academic children. All of the schools I have known also do a half day on Saturday

Because that’s my experience. My DC go to school on bank holidays and there are no inset days. That’s where I got the “idea” from.

Well, to add what everyone else has said- our private school starts the day at 08.20 and finishes at 16.20. Then the kids have the option to stay until 6 pm to do afterschool clubs- some of which are prep clubs. They have 'clinics' every lunchtime for students to attend in subjects they might be struggling in.

We live across the road from our local state school and their hours seem to be 8.45 - 3.00 from what I can tell from people walking back and forth. So that's a around an extra 10 hours a week at the private school. Plus smaller classes- there is a cap on 16 pupils per class. There are very strict rules around discipline. 2 hours homework a night. Teachers are insanely hard working (which they will be at state schools also I know) but it is not uncommon for my DCs to hand prep in at 9 pm and have it marked and returned to them online within 30 minutes. Personally I think the teachers are worked too hard and the expectations on them are a bit extreme and have said this to various teachers at various points.

I will add though that pastoral care is excellent at the school. It is strict but nurturing. SEN provision is outstanding IMO (DS1 has autism and adhd and other issues). His teachers are really understanding with this and when he gets overwhelmed they make adjustments for him- and allow him to take some time out or to call me and I can calm him down. It's an excellent, very small private school, and I feel grateful every day that we are there.

Personally I love the longer holidays now that I am at home all the time. My two need it as well- they are usually absolutely wrecked by the time holidays come around.

We never had them either.

Better teaching, smaller classes, fewer disruptive pupils.

Interesting I’ve also extensively worked in both.
I’ve seen awful teaching in both and amazing teaching in both. Neither has a monopoly on good bad or indifferent teaching although it’s easier to be a good teacher with attentive well behaved children, endlessly resources and small classes. I personally think parents might be “shocked” by what goes on behind the scenes in both. For example I think most state school parents believe that all teachers have to qualified, in academies this is not true. In one state school I worked in a high number of lessons were taught by unqualified cover teachers. Many on here regularly trot out the teachers in private schools don’t have to be qualified line but IME particularly at secondary level this was not the case all were qualified teachers.
I do agree private schools are good at marketing to parents, they are aware that most parents are paying for results, which they believe occur in part due to class size but also like all the window dressings: swimming pools, illustrious alumni, mediaeval manuscripts, 100 acres of playing fields, meaningless ritual and ridiculous uniforms etc.
With regard to work culture again it comes down to the individual school I worked fairly briefly at a very famous private school I hated the work culture, at another famous school I worked in it treated its staff well and there was a very nice atmosphere and an excellent relationship with the parents who’s concerns were listened too but routinely given into. Unsurprisingly the children were also happier in the latter. Ditto in the state sector one was poisonous with very demoralised unhappy overworked staff another looked after its staff well and again it listened to parents but was not ruled by them.
I agree do your research carefully paying doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better. Ask yourself do I like the school and believe in what it does (this is important) and does my child suit the general ethos.
Both my DCs were educated in both at various times in their education amount of holiday is the least of your concerns (unless your juggling child care and a full time job).

It’s why they get loaded with far more prep than at state - a lot of those hours are made up at home. Also Saturday morning school and a longer school day.

It's not really relevant but in the 90s my prep school had 2 weeks off for October half term (one week for the other half terms), 4 weeks off at Christmas and Easter, and NINE weeks for the summer. My poor mother, I have no idea how she covered the holidays.

Plenty of kids with SEN in both my children’s private schools. Also, lots of kids with SEN are able to perform well academically when in the correct environment and with the correct support.
Small class sizes
Plenty of movement breaks/sport
Lots of structure
Early intervention
High expectations
Prep/homework done in school environment

Smaller class sizes, longer hours - ours had homework club where they stayed for an hour after school with teachers on hand to help. The summer holiday was a killer - they broke up early/mid June and went back at the end of August (although it meant holidays could be cheap as outside of the usual school holidays).

Os it a boarding school? That may make a difference to the bank holidays but no school can run without inset days..there are mandatory annual safeguarding training requirements as a bare minimum. Most likely is they don't appear in the school calendar, so term starts on x day but all the staff were in two days before.

Having appropriate long holidays is only beneficial given parents are involved. I grew up with really long school holidays and my parents put huge effort into the studies on holidays (e.g.going tgrough next years curriculum), travels and additional activities.

I agree small classes, an expectation of children behaving and learning from teachers and parents, few children with oppositional disorder or ADHD, no requirement to be " inclusive" and tolerate poor behaviour so children who can't/ won't behave have to leave. Primary school children don't have to learn a lot.

Hi OP,
Education and academic outcomes are not directly bound to number of hours spent in lessons.
Schools who top the league tables for exam results have a selective intake. Grammar schools have pretty ordinary results when you consider the previous performance of the students.
One long standing piece of educational research shows that there is a close relationship between the parents profession and the child's academic attainment. The children of Higher level professionals like consultants and barristers and university teachers attain well. I'm not you understand saying this is a good thing. I myself work in an ordinary state secondary school and our mission is to successfully challenge this narrative.
I'm not familiar with fee paying primaries in detail but any child who attends a fee paying school is by definition privileged, they have parents who are wealthy and believe in education.
Also again these are primary school hours and holiday entitlement, I grew up in Cambridge which swarms with fee paying schools, my cousins attended one, they sure put in the hours in secondary and sixth form.!

A big part of it is likely to be the paperwork burden and the large number of unsupported SEND children in state schools. Based on what I have experienced, I suspect it is more likely that a large number of state school students should have qualified for extra time but were overlooked, not that private schools are somehow cheating and giving kids extra time that don’t need it. There is a burden of proof to get extra time and every single application is evaluated on its own merits by the same oversight body.