For thinking having lots of kids is selfish

[User788889]

So DH said he wouldn’t mind a third child. I won’t even consider it; as much as I love my two angels I don’t think I could handle another one. In no way am I saying 3 kids is a lot by the way. I was one of ten and as a child I received no attention, felt very lonely in a house full of people, and Im not really close to any of my siblings in my adult years. I spent a lot of my teen years raising babies and not getting time to be a child myself. I think this is extremely selfish. I just know I won’t be able to split my time between 3 kids and I highly doubt anyone can past 5+ children.

Im sorry if this comes across as rude. I don’t like judging other parents but I know firsthand how detrimental it is for a child to have to constantly beg their parents for attention. I was always overshadowed by a new and shiny baby, it’s not fair. And parentifying kids should actually be classified as abuse. I feel like that is a given in big families even if they say they don’t or won’t do it.

@User788889
I have the same amount of children as my mother. So yes I know how my children are growing up. They actually have it better than I did.
You are one of ten and are on here "raising awareness" to anyone who has more than two.

I agree. I don't think it's possible to give more than 2 children the love / time / energy / support / space / money they deserve. It's a very unpopular opinion though. I know what I can see though, and the standard of parenting from everyone I know with more than 2 children wouldn't be acceptable to me.

You are completely not-unreasonable in not wanting a third child.
I don't think larger families are necessarily overly-crowded, neglectful, etc - I am one of four, and we all get on very well as adults, and had a very happy joint childhood.

As extreme as it might sound, I’d go as far to say there needs to be provisions in place for large families to ensure the kids needs are being met. Not as strict as ss but definitely like a health visitor to make sure the kids aren’t flying under the radar like me.

Often I was verbally abused, yelled at, sometimes even physically punished for minor things due to the stress of so much kids and no financial stability. Not to mention constantly parentified to the point I raised my siblings

Also we had to share rooms regardless of gender which isn’t right. There should definitely be more into this. I guess you can argue benefits but it just wasn’t enough. Irresponsible parents spend on themselves not their kids.

I have a problem with the people who have families of 15, 18, 20+ children. I don't care if you can afford them, the resources that have to be used ie washing machines, tumble dryers, nappies whether cloth or disposable is not sustainable for the planet.. Domestic appliances are not designed to cope with that amount of use and I wonder how often they last

Families of 4 5 or 6 - don't have a problem with that DH came from a family of 5 and all the siblings get on well.

If the parents are actually doing a good job then there won’t be anything to worry about. Like the new home schooling rules.

How ridiculous.

I definitely wouldn't open the door to a health visitor to do a random check on me just because of the number of children I have.

My kids go to school and nursery - there's adults around them that are trained to spot the signs of abuse.

YANBU because that's how you feel based upon how you were treated as a child. I think there does come a point when there are more children than can be given the time and attention needed.

Research kids of big families. You’ll find there are a lot of cases even recent ones where they have found out they have been neglected, abused and their homes were insanely unsanitary. I’m sure they didn’t want to open the door either. After a certain number the chances of neglect whether that be physical or emotional shoot up.

I can see where you are coming from. I was one of four (not a lot) but definitely had to play a parental role to help my parents out (something my parents are very open about - my dad’s nickname for me was even “little mom”).

Probably why I ended up never having kids - I satisfied my desire for motherhood in my childhood!

Hello OP,

How you feel is perfectly reasonable. However, who decides how much is too much for whom ?

Personally I have three. I hesitated a long time before going for the third and I know I'm definitely done now, I've reached my limit.

But my SIL wants 4-6 and I think she can probably manage them all if she does - she's very mature and hard-working and organised. (she only has 2 so far).

My aunt had 12 kids. I'm not often in touch with them as they live in a different country, but they told me they're very close and do lots of things together.

So in short, it's difficult to compare families, they're all different. Some parents won't be able to handle even one kid, others will have five and have a wonderful close-knit family.

It sounds like your parents couldn't really handle ten children, and ten definitely is a LOT ! But it's hard to set a limit (and when the chinese tried it didn't turn out that well either).

I remember reading an article about a lady who had 14 kids (she wanted a boy and openly said she'd keep going til she had one, all 14 kids were girls). She got up at 4am, did six loads of laundry a day, etc. Not the sort of life I would ever want but she seemed happy enough... Time will tell what her children think.

How many times have we read about children being abused or even.murdered and how many were an only child and how many were from big families. I think quite often it is an only child or a child from a small family. Being from a small family isn't a guarantee of good parenting.

But you completely ignore the cases of abuse that happened in small families with 1-2 children.

I just can’t imagine wanting to parent that many. Don’t the women want their own lives? My two are late teens and Dh and I and our friends are excited about the next stage doing our own thing now. The thought of having to continue parenting ad infinitum for my whole adult life makes me want to cry, why would you do that to yourself? I don’t want to be the Old Woman who Lived in a Shoe.

Perhaps people like different things to you?

I don’t really care how many children people have or if they want to spend their late middle age with friends or their own children. I do find it grating when people assume others choices are worse than theirs.

Myself I prefer large families. I haven’t seen any evidence that neglect or unhappiness is rife in the larger families I know and think it’s probably not the case. It’s just another thing to make sweeping judgements about.

I'm one of four, and I had four. I would have kept going for maybe two more, but I realised my eldest wasn't getting the attention he deserved as I was too busy with the younger ones, so I stopped, and ensured he wasn't left out.

I certainly brought mine up differently to the way I was brought up, no screaming and shouting at my children for a start. We always had dinner together, and made sure they individually had time with one of us. I can't ever remember being read to, but we had plenty of books around, so probably did.

It’s not just a generalisation.

• Children living in larger families with four or more children were physically neglected almost three times more often than those living in one-child families and more than twice as often as those living in families with two or three children.”

This was on a report for Juvenile offenders and victims. I’m sure you can find multiple sources who agree. Children of excessively large families (not 4) are more prone to neglect.

That’s interesting can you link to your source? Is it a uk based study? Is the family size the only distinguishing feature or do other things play into that? For example my guess would be larger families are predominately seen in low and high income households, households with strong religious beliefs, immigrants, and possibly melded families. Some of these situations would I imagine make neglect more prevalent.

Yeah, you may have a point there ... Whilst a family with 5 or 6 or more children might have a few children who find it harder to be listened to sometimes, it's not a given. And there is no guarantee of being heard if you have just 1 or 2 siblings.

I just have 1 sibling, a brother, and he was definitely my mother's favourite child.. And even though my dad adored me, my brother was respected and listened to a lot more than me by him, and in the eyes of both of them, he could do no wrong.

My opinions were poo pooed as I was 'just a girl,' and I was taught to do 'girl things' like ironing and cooking and sewing and housework. I have always had an interest in science and astronomy, (and the planet,) but was never encouraged to pursue anything involving any of the above. Even the school refused to let me.

I had my wings clipped early on, and never developed the confidence to retrain/do things that interested me when I was older... Ergo, I am just in a bog standard admin job now. And THAT is only because I took courses at college myself in my early 20s, (in tech/office work/typing etc.) If I hadn't, I would have spent my working life in a factory, (where my parents got me to go to when I was 16.) Several relatives worked there, and they had no problem getting me a job on the assembly line!

So I have a lack of confidence and I'm quite insecure, because I wasn't listened to as a child/younger person, and I am one of only two siblings. (Brother is 5 years younger...)

Thankfully my DC (now late 20s) are doing what they want with their life, as they weren't held back like many Gen X-ers!

My Mum was an only child and she always wanted a large family and had 5 children. I wish she hadn't bothered - one sibling in particular made my life hell and none of us are in touch as adults. However, I accept that some parents are good at parenting and make large families fun to be a part of. I just think my parents were a bit shit at parenting.

I mean you could say the same for parents of 1 and 2 really. “Good parenting requires sustained effort for many years”… and they end up missing that memo!

Most of the child deaths I've read about from abuse were in homes where they were the only child 🤔

I'm a single parent to two children compared to my friend and her late husband who had five children. Comparing our lives is swings and roundabouts. Her and her husband were very much a family unit and overall they were good role models for marriage. That said there were seven of them jammed in to a small house (unable to move due to council waiting lists) and I think that there quality of life is lower due to having to make money stretch further. Also 7 people in a small house is messy and the house never clean, often dirty. Her oldest son and only daughter have had to move out due to space and there isn't much room if they want to come back.
My children have never seen me in a happy marriage but there quality of life is completely different. I own my house and we are spread out over a four bedroom house, I expect they will be here in to young adulthood until they can afford to move out and I can afford for them to do that. They have both taken part in a lot of sport and I work out a lot too. I feel like there lives are much calmer and less restrictive than my friends.

Based on what I have seen I have to agree. I work closely with families of all shapes and sizes and also I have friends and school parent acquaintances with differing family sizes and set ups.

The larger families all seem rushed and stressed. Most seem to be just getting through the day rather than actually enjoying it. When I'm in larger families homes it's often chaotic and messy and the children are often struggling in one way or another. I see parents struggling to get lots of children to do this that and the other, and toddles are being pulled along while mum fights with an older child and tries to push a pram etc.. I have observed a lot more behaviour issues in children of larger families. They get less attention and financial resources, such as holiday and clubs as well as help with uni etc

I'm not saying it's true for every single large family on the planet but it does not appear to me that the children are getting everything they need. They seem to be pulled along for the ride rather than fully embraced.

I know parents of large families will disagree but of course they will. I know some adults will say they loved having lots of siblings, but they don't know any different and can't know life where they would have had more time and experiences and know how they would have liked that.

Parents of larger families will say they have so much time to spend with each child etc but I really don't see that often and I really don't know how that is possible. Each and every day I spend quality time with my dc: talking to them after school, taking time to listen to them, doing homework and reading, meaningful bedtimes and being present at their clubs, assembly, events, getting to know their individual strengths and challenges and what they like. I volunteer at their school and activities to be involved in their lives. Cooking separate meals and attending appointments and making sure I can fully focus there. Knowing which child needs what on which day for x day at school. Financially too: allowing them freedom to have the best and extras such as spur of the moment cinema with friends or just being able to take them on expensive experiences or spontaneous shopping trips when they are having a rubbish time. Taking them out one on one when they have had a rubbish week or even as a celebration for something. I have one who has had the opportunity to compete at national level in her sport which has meant lots of time and money for us. One of us is away most weekends with her doing her sport.
I just do not know how anyone could do that with lots of children. I have two with a 4 year gap. People will tell themselves they are doing that with all their children in large families but there is no way on earth that's possible.

I was one of 5 and neglected. The new babies were the focus and older kids forgotten, left to fend for themselves too young. Adult siblings have chosen to have two or less children, with two choosing none. That's the whole reason I am so devoted to my children as above. I never want them to feel as I did. It wasn't even the physical neglect and lack of experiences/finances that was the worst, it was the emotional neglect as parents were always stressed and tired.

I also agree that I get so much from my career and I can't imagine being able to work with more children.

Actually, with reference to the above post, 2 of my siblings are child free by choice, after growing up in our shitshow of a family.