She wants the gifted money back

[HereForItMaybe]

I'll keep it short - DM very kindly gifted myself and my brother £50k each, 5 years ago.

She has now asked for it back. My brother has not been asked.

AIBU to say no?

I know noone should assume any inheritance but if you give any money back you need to make sure your brother has done the same before you do so. If you are the only one who gives any money back, when it comes to that time (and assuming you and your brother inherit 50/50 and the estate still contains the money you gave back) your brother will then inherit some of that after keeping his share. I do feel for you OP, my DH and his family are having a difficult time over inheritance and it could have been so much simpler & fairer if things hadn't happened along the way

I just want to do what's right, morally, I want to make sure she's okay.

Just ask yourself if she should also be doing the above towards you. Is she doing what's right, morally? Is she wanting to make sure you are ok when she is asking you for this money back? Does she realise you need to sell your home to give her the money or does she think you just have it saved for a rainy day? If she does realise you need to sell your house, do you think that's morally right towards you? A parent doing this to their child has very questionable morals.

As a parent, I could never imagine putting such pressure on my own to the point they would consider making themselves homeless.
If her relationship is better with your brother then why wouldn't she trust that he would be happy to help. Sounds to me as if she is trying to coerce you into getting her own way.
If she had £100k already and the cost of her own home, then she should be grateful to be in the lucky position she is in. She has a daughter willing to flex to help her but helping someone should never be at a detriment to yourself. You put your own oxygen mask on before helping others. Especially those acting a bit princessy.
This post has really boggled my mind.

Why should you loose your home and he gets away scot free having had the benefit of a good time on his Mums money?

Its quite clear that it is documented as a gift, and a gift made to you and your brother. You are under no legal threat to have to return it and you can just say no....but as you say things are not as easy as that if you want to maintain a relationship. with Mum. But Mum is being unfair

Tell her that to give her the money you will have to sell the house, move into rented accommodation and won't get back on the housing ladder. Had the money been given as a loan, then you could have budgeted for that and repayment but it wasn't a loan and so you had not calculated you would ever need to repay the monies. As such if you sell the house to get her her money, the costs incurred will have to be covered by the £50K so she won't get the whole £50K as you will need money to put down on a rental etc.

On the other hand, if you and your brother have to give £25K each then you can get a loan and sell your car but that will cause you financial issues because you would never have made the choices you have, had you known you would be asked to repay it.

If and a big IF you do agree to give her the money back that she GAVE you then you should make it clear it would only be the amount less what it costs you to be able to do so. So from the £50k there would be legal and estate agents fees or selling and buying a new place, stamp duty, an mortgage broker fees, any removal company fees etc. These are all costs you would not otherwise incur. You have already paid these when moving in.

These add up! So in any event you should not be "giving" back the full £50k. She should see the fairness in that the same way she thinks she shouldn't ask your brother who spent it on intangible fun stuff.

First there is no tax liability here. Second, how petty.

No.

complete sentence.

you don't give a gift and ask for it back

and it was a gift as you have it all clearly documented in your house purchase.

Yes there could be a romance scam

Crossed with my response too!

This and if she did expect you to downsize your house then tell her your brother can downsize his cars and pay her his future holiday fund.

Sorry you are dealing with this but please be assured her request is unfair and unreasonable.

Have you talked to your brother about it? Would he back you up at all?

She is massively unreasonable to expect the money back. She gave it as a gift and you have made life choices based on that. Whatever you had to to to hand it back, you wouldn’t break even, it would cost you dearly. Don’t budge. I’m astonished anyone would do this to their own child. Has she maybe just not thought it through and doesn’t realise how much it would screw you over?

You have already stated that this money was a gift when you got your mortgage. That’s a legal document. Otherwise your mother would have a call on your house as she would own part of it when you next went to sell it. This is done and dusted and legal. You can’t now say you lied on this. So the legal agreement stands. If you hand back this money your brother got his share and you got nothing. Don’t accept this disrespectful behaviour as it’s because you are an easier softer individual for her to deal with. Men being special beings, seen it all before. Don’t offer any cash whatsoever. Your brother won’t. Even if mum says he will, chances are it won’t happen at all. She will do what she wants to do and he won’t be asked to pay. It’s a legal agreement you signed and you are not going to state you lied. I would tell your brother she’s asking for her money back from both of you to see his reaction, but absolutely regardless of what he says (unless it’s “no chance”) I wouldn’t believe for a minute that he would be out of pocket here. I gave one of my boys money for a house deposit 5 years ago and it was written as a gift and I had to sign a letter to the building society to declare it was freely given and that I had no interest or ownership whatsoever in the house he bought. It’s legal it’s done that’s it. Do not pay any money out. Your mothers being ridiculous and showing favouritism and I wouldn’t forgive her for that and would find my anger. I would tell your aunt it’s all legal and signed at the time as a gift, freely entered into by your mum and it was specifically not a loan and you are incensed that she’s treating you differently from your brother. Not a penny and parents should not be treating their children differently. As others have said check this inheritance perhaps she was supposed to give you the money anyway. Not a penny. It’s legal, it’s done, that’s the end of it. This is FOG, fear, obligation and guilt. Don’t buy into it.

“I just want to do what's right, morally, I want to make sure she's okay.”

Why? She clearly couldn’t care less whether you are.

But okay in what sense? Financially? Well she has/had 100k, has a (large) home and is looking to move to a posh area so, she’s dandy.

Sorry if this is harsh but arghhhh! this is incredibly frustrating. You’re sounding like an absolute wet-wipe who is determined to screw her own life up despite hundreds of people telling you to say no, that what your mum is doing is wrong, not just wrong but actually very manipulative and nasty, you want to make sure SHE is okay?!

Are you okay?!

Just posting so I can keep in touch for an update. She’s being very unreasonable and I can’t believe she would be happy making you homeless. How did she ask? A demand or an “if you think you can afford it?”

So you technically don’t have the money as she is expecting you to sell your house to get this money. Which isn’t fair when it was legally signed as a gift 5 years ago also.

She has a house now, you have a house now….surely to downsize it would make sense for her to live within her means and go smaller/cheaper.

also as others have said is she being coerced by someone? Could it be your auntie with her trying to convince you also?

I accidentally hit ‘you are being unreasonable’ but meant NOT!! I understand how this isn’t black and white as feelings are involved but I think your mum is being unreasonable!

What's right, morally, is for your mum to respect that she gave you a gift, and that she cannot ask for it to be returned.

What's morally wrong is to ask her daughter to give up her home so that she can act on a whim.

Think back to the very first time she mentioned giving you some money. What did she say?

What she said then is irrelevant. She signed legal documents stating the money was a gift.

Not really irrelevant. I just wondered how her mum had phrased it.

I don't think the OP should give the money back, btw.

Hello OP,

Could you take someone with you as a witness to the conversation to take notes maybe and record it too ... I would be and I would be getting all my paperwork from the 'gift' in order and get legal advice ...do not give in OP ... a gift is a gift!

How long ago were you and your brother 'gifted' this money out of interest, apologies if I missed this earlier ...

Good luck OP!

Selling your own house would be a terrible idea, since you'd need to pay estate agents, conveyancing, moving costs, costs of sorting out the new place, stamp duty, etc.
You'd be downsizing a long way further down than £50k

I'm trying to think how you could get someone impartial to get her to understand how mad the idea is.

Another option might be if you and your brother take out a mortgage on her new house to help her move to where she wants, but you 2 keep your money, and obviously a share in the new house

This is absolutely outrageous OP! Remind your mother that she gave you the money as a gift, and this being the case you spent it on your house. If as others have indicated, she had to sign something when you bought, to confirm that the money was a gift, then remind her of this, and then if she says 'but I need the money now', just say, 'well I'm sorry Mum, but I simply don't have it to give, if you were going to ask for it back you should have said it was a loan, in which case I wouldn't have accepted it, but it's gone toward my house now, so I just DON'T HAVE IT!'

If she tells you to sell your house, then just tell her not to be so ridiculous. If she denies that she's being ridiculous, and insists that you sell your home to give her this money, just say 'Mum, I am NOT going to sell my home, just so that you can live somewhere more expensive! You should never have given us the money if you were going to ask for it back, but now it's gone, and there is nothing to be done about it.' Then get up and walk away.

Sorry OP, but I think you'd be mad to give into this, Mother or not, she doesn't have the right to insist you sell your home, just so that she can live in a posher area.

OP the one thing I regret the most is letting my parents, esp my dad, be disrespectful towards me throughout my life. I felt I always had to get him to see my side and show him that he was being unreasonable and he would sometime, eventually, act like a loving father. It was never going to happen. It never did happen. Put simply because your mum wants this money back you don’t have to agree with her. You are an adult with agency. If your mums not happy, that’s her problem, she doesn’t have to be kept happy. It’s an equal relationship, she’s not the boss or the arbiter on what’s right or wrong, you don’t have to convince her or your aunt that you are right. She will get over it. You won’t get over it if you find your brother has had £50,000 and you were made to pay yours back. You will wonder decades from now what got into you to be so downtrodden. It’s an equal relationship now, remember that, mum does not need to be kept happy here. Your mum is wrong and you know it.

I disagree with the PP who said not to tell her you’ll match what your brother gives back. It is entirely unreasonable not to treat you equally. Just because you had then good sense to invest your gift in property, and your brother frittered it away on holidays and cars, now you are being penalised?? No thank you. And as for having more responsibility as a father - again, why then did he not invest the money for his kids’ futures?

You are doing yourself a huge disservice here.

If you sold your house, it’ll cost you a LOT more than £50k. You would have to cover conveyancing fees, agents’s fees, sdlt. Fees alone will be at least £10k (I’ve literally just moved house so I know this). It’d have to come off her “lump sum”, so she won’t get the full amount back anyway. Plus, could you even afford to do that?

I personally think it’s outrageous she has asked without being really hard up herself and absolutely disgusted she has targeted you and not your brother.

Also, remember, arguments can be argued with. If you fundamentally don’t want to (I wouldn’t) then just say no.

Agree with this, you need to be clear and firm OP.
Like pps, and having had my own Mum scammed out of a huge sum of money, I am also wondering about scams, ( and/or whether that money was always inheritance meant for you and your brother)
It is bonkers to gift cash to your children, and then years later, when they have spent it as they see fit, to expect one of your children to actually give up her home so that you can buy a house in a more expensive area. It’s so bonkers that I wonder if she’s in her right mind, is she elderly ?