She wants the gifted money back

[HereForItMaybe]

I'll keep it short - DM very kindly gifted myself and my brother £50k each, 5 years ago.

She has now asked for it back. My brother has not been asked.

AIBU to say no?

Who is there to make sure you are ok?

Sorry, you cannot give a gift and then decide x years later to demand it back. What if you had spent on a luxury holiday?

I wonder if as it’s tied up in the house that she is assuming you either remortgage or sell the house. Both of which are huge financial commitments (for you!).

I don't know if this is relevant to OP's family, but something I've learned is that in recovering from narcissistic abuse, you basically have to re-examine what is morally ok and what's not ok. Even the actual definition of love.

Especially when it's a parent, they can programme their dc with all sorts of upside down beliefs. Some poor people spend their life putting an abusive parent on a pedestal (as they've been trained to), striving for their approval. Again, not saying that's necessarily going on here.

It's a long road out of it, but luckily there's help available now (for me, various books and youtube videos, counsellors tend not to understand)

Fuck that

Keep the money and ditch the family

@HereForItMaybe You don't sound convinced by what people are saying on here. It is absolutely NOT ON morally, never mind legally for you to have to sell your house/car or get a loan.

She gave you a 'gift' and she cannot demand you give it back. By all means find out what is going on - but wanting to downsize to a more expensive area isn't a 'need' it is a 'want' - and would put you in a terrible position. A lot of money would be wasted for you to sell your home and buy another one. Thousands. Please don't discuss it with her with the attitude that you are going to do everything you can to help her out. You need to be clear in your own mind before you speak to her, that selling the house, the car or taking out a big loan are not possible for you. Take it from there by all means, but be clear in your own mind that you are not doing any of those things, because it is not reasonable to be asked to do that, or she'll put even more pressure on you to make you feel guilt and give in.

Tuffo buffo. I want a lot of things but I don't get them !

@Silvers11's advice is spot on OP.

If you need further convincing of how impractical this is.. This site gives indications of how much it costs, depending on how much your house is currently worth. But overall I think Silvers is right... Have your mind firmly set on the fact that you are not selling up. I also agree withthe pp who said advise your DM to look up the consequences of reclaiming funds declared as a gift.

https://www.theadvisory.co.uk/house-selling/cost-of-selling-a-house/#how-much-will-it-cost-to-sell-your-home

Sorry, you said it was gift and I spent it on my house so I can't give it back now. You could ask db if he can give you his share back?

Presumably she knows it is in the house so it's not just a case of giving back 50k?! Awful she has asked you and not your brother.

It’s so irrational, it’s exactly the kind of thing that someone being scammed might do.

Absolutely love the proposed plan here from what’s been suggested. Totally agree! Her ask is unreasonable (even on it’s own, plus the fact it’s only you she’s asking), but you still want to help. Do it on your terms, and make sure it’s fair by involving your brother.

Yes, actually agree that it's so batshit that there is a possibility she is being influenced/pressured by someone. Could she be being scammed? It's a very real and sadly common thing that mostly happens to middle aged/older women....

I wondered this too. Of course it might be the Aunt who is being scammed and putting pressure on OP's Mum to give her money, which OPs Mum doesn't have.

Not really fair to sell your house so she can move to an expensive area. The money is gone, so no.

I just want to do what's right, morally, I want to make sure she's okay.

Morally, she shouldn't be asking for return of a gift, which would force you to sell your house. It was a gift and she shouldn't be guilt tripping you over it. Nor should you be letting her get away with it.

It would be interesting to know what happened to the £100k she kept for herself. Has she frittered it away?

You need to stand firm here. You aren't responsible for her. As for the making sure she's OK notion, ask yourself whether or not she is making sure you are OK while she is making these demands, regardless of whether or not she has approached your brother. She isn't, if course. Especially if her actions could force you to sell your home (I definitely don't think you should ever even consider doing that, by the way).

It was given as a gift. You have legal documents showing it was intended as a gift and significant time has passed. That is no longer her money; it is your money.
Morally, she shouldn't be asking you. Morally, if she wants to ask you for the money back, she should also be asking your brother. She can ask but you do not have to give in. In fact, if you do give her money as the result of “excessive pressure, emotional blackmail or bullying” a court could actually find in your favour in the future for her harassing you to give her the money.
She gave it freely and intended it as a gift. You have written proof. There are no takebacksees.
She is the one putting you in this position.
She also doesn't sound like she actually needs the money, which would be a different thing. Has she found a house she loves that she knows she needs 50k for? Does she realise the potential mortgage/housing/ IHT implications for you?
I really hope seeing all this from so many people is giving you some reassurance.
I have loaned my friend money (not gifted) and I wouldn't expect her to sell her home to repay me! I would not expect her to leave herself in a financially difficult situation to repay me- and this is a loan and a friend!
I have also been gifted money by family previously and if they needed it would give it to them but I would expect there to be a real reason for it and that my siblings are also all doing the same!

What would be morally right would be for your mother not to ask for any money . You were given the money , you’ve used the money , end of . Would it be morally right for you to ask her for every Christmas / birthday gift you’ve ever bought her ?

I hadn't considered that - I wouldn't have thought so, but then that's what everyone says? I'll ask a few questions tomorrow and see if there's anything else going on.

I'm a bit worried about your meeting with your mother. If you are persuaded to hand the money back by selling your house, as others have said, it'll cost you. All the expenses of moving house and these aren't negligible. So her gifting you £50k could cost you £70k or so. This surely isn't tenable.

Have you got a close friend who might come along with you? You could brief them in advance and if the Talk turns to mum pushing you to sell, can get you up and out of there?

“Sorry Mum, I spent it. Are you in trouble do you need help?”

It isn't now a loan. It has and always been a gift. You can't give someone something and then later say actually it was a loan.

@Adelstrop explain to your mother that you relied on her representations that ir was a gift and have made your own financial decisions based on it being a gift and that you are not in a position to give her it back.

How do you know she hasn't asked your brother? From her or from him. I was just curious. If from her did you ask why not?

I just want to do what's right, morally

Don't let this mean the right thing to do is solely down to you!! Your mother has a moral obligation too....

1. To not revoke a (legally declared) gift
2. To not cause her daughter undue financial hardship
3. To not cause her daughter upset, purely because she wants to live in a nicer location

...... Don't think you're the only one who should be moral, and ABSOLUTELY don't think that it is morally right to SELL YOUR HOME to pay back a loan that never existed.

My heart breaks for how unfair this is on you, and how obviously blind you are to her manipulation.
I would bet my last dollar that she's not as good a mother as you think she is.

Yes, I would want to know what happened to her £100k as a starting point for the conversation. My mind went to gambling rather than scamming (secret bingo addiction?)

Mum needs to understand that selling your house would involve you in a LOT of expense, especially if you could afford to buy another. The options to repaying her out of the house (which I don't think for a moment you should do) seem to me to be - sell house, become homeless, cost to you about £50k plus all the costs of selling the house, total around £60k. Sell house, buy another - costs to you more like £100k.

IF, and that is an ENORmous if, she genuinely needs £50k for a sensible reason, then it would be a lot more sensible to ask for £25k each from her kids. But if you are to consider even for the most fleeting of moments giving her any money (and stop thinking about 'repayment' - that gift has gone, and that ship has sailed) you need to know where her money is going. (I also have suspicions of this aunt!)

I’d worry that framing it like this, fairness with brother, only giving back what brother can afford is going to go down like a lead balloon. Firstly it implies you can afford to give her the money back. Because you’re essentially saying if he gives 50k you can too, but also it may come across as bitter and a bit childish - I’m not saying that’s the case, if she’s asking you to return the money I think that’s horrible, but I think she could interpret it as you being petty… like I’ll only do it if he has to do it.

I’d probably say how much you wish you could ‘help her out’ as she helped you with her gift back then. That you just don’t have that kind of money available to you. Don’t even act as though selling your house is a possibility, because it shouldn’t be. Offer support in other ways, ask if brother has been able to return her gift. Suggest helping her find somewhere cheaper.

You should take selling your house off the table because it’s unreasonable. Only consider the help that you can give outside of that option